Electric Vehicles

Status
Not open for further replies.
Disbelief said:
One other thing, is that most cars sold in the US far exceed the NHTSA standards because of the IIHS crash tests. While those are not government required, manufacturers want to meet the more stringent standards for PR reasons. The amount of money in design and manufacturing to meet the shallow offset frontal crash is substantial.
Click to expand...

That's true. A lot of buyers see close to class-leading marks in the equivalent Euro-NCAP star rating as a basic requirement to even consider a particular model over its competition. And of course a car that's designed to shine in one set of tests might drop the ball when subjected to a different set. I remember there was quite a fuss over the Chrysler Voyager about 20 years ago when it scored zero in the Euro-NCAP frontal crash test.
 
Australian state government of Victoria is introducing an electric car tax, based on distance driven.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-03-18/electric-vehicle-tax-a-disincentive-to-go-green/13258232
From July, a 2.5 cent/km charge will apply to electric and other zero-emission vehicles, including hydrogen vehicles, and a 2.0 cent/km charge will apply to plug-in hybrid-electric vehicles.

Remarkable thing, it isn’t an LNP government (AGW deniers) that is bring it in.
 
Last edited:
What is the prevalence of electric vehicles in the state? Are there any incentives to drive people towards EV ownership?
 
EHocking said:
Australian state government of Victoria is introducing an electric car tax, based on distance driven.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-03-18/electric-vehicle-tax-a-disincentive-to-go-green/13258232
From July, a 2.5 cent/km charge will apply to electric and other zero-emission vehicles, including hydrogen vehicles, and a 2.0 cent/km charge will apply to plug-in hybrid-electric vehicles.

Remarkable thing, it isn’t an LNP government (AGW deniers) that is bring it in.
Click to expand...

I mean, it kinda makes sense... If Australia is anything like the US, huge parts of the budget for roads comes from a tax on gasoline. That's been a fairly good way of having road users pay their fair share - generally, the more gas you use, the more wear you are inflicting on the roads.

Now that there's a growing share of electric vehicles, they are causing wear & tear on the roads without paying for it. Granted, there's other savings they make such as reducing costs from pollution.

IMO, it's time to start re-thinking how roads are funded and move towards a mileage based system. Categorize cars into various classes based on things like size, weight, and environmental damage. Tax each car based on their class and annual mileage rather than at the pump. Discounts/rebates can be applied to people with low income.
 
It makes sense and it has to change, but it will be a mess until we all agree on what the change should be.

The US Federal Fuel Tax ($0.183/gal) hasn't been adjusted since 1993, despite a bit of inflation and increased fleet fuel efficiency over that time. So, we either need to raise it massively to keep up funding or change the funding system entirely.
 
This is why I don't like luxury and sin taxes in general. We wind up in situations where we can't get rid of something bad without either cutting our own financial legs out from under or us or re-inventing the wheel.

Yeah I know funding roads through a gas tax isn't exactly that, but it's close enough in the way the situation has turned out.
 
JoeMorgue said:
This is why I don't like luxury and sin taxes in general. We wind up in situations where we can't get rid of something bad without either cutting our own financial legs out from under or us or re-inventing the wheel.

Yeah I know funding roads through a gas tax isn't exactly that, but it's close enough in the way the situation has turned out.
Click to expand...

Lots of people who would like to see less fossil fuel consumption have advocated for increasing the fuel tax. Even just catching it up to inflation would have it at $0.333/gal. But something higher could have a positive impact on buying and driving decisions.

The catch being that if such a plan were successful we would need to find another means for funding infrastructure. But really, this seems like a net positive. No fight with big oil over the fuel tax. If we move to a pure weight/miles based system then it may be easier to pass.
 
I tend to agree with Joe Morgue on this one, though it depends a little on the sin. There are "sin taxes" on such things a smoking, which supposedly are used to counteract the ill effects of the sin, and thus if smoking is diminished, the need for the revenue is also. The tax on gasoline is much more ambiguous, because the infrastructure remains and the need remains. Taxing gasoline will become less and less effective as electric cars take over.

New York State has (or at least used to have) a partial solution (though obviously not total, since they still tax gas), in which there is a registration surcharge based on vehicle weight, supposedly reflecting the effect on highways. That would, I suspect, go some way in remedying a gas tax shortfall, and might drive innovation in battery lightening in the process.
 
Dr. Keith said:
Lots of people who would like to see less fossil fuel consumption have advocated for increasing the fuel tax. Even just catching it up to inflation would have it at $0.333/gal. But something higher could have a positive impact on buying and driving decisions.
Click to expand...

Current UK fuel duty is a little over $3/gal equivalent. Plus 20% VAT. It pretty much doubles the cost of petrol. While I'm sure it does have an impact on purchasing decisions it doesn't stop us driving everywhere. Just not in V8s.
 
Jack by the hedge said:
Current UK fuel duty is a little over $3/gal equivalent. Plus 20% VAT. It pretty much doubles the cost of petrol. While I'm sure it does have an impact on purchasing decisions it doesn't stop us driving everywhere. Just not in V8s.
Click to expand...

It has a huge impact on purchasing decisions.

The top selling vehicle in the US is the Ford F series (F-150, F-250, F-350) followed by Chevy's full sized truck line, the Silverado, and Ram's full sized lineup. The only two cars in the top ten are the Camry and Civic.

Compared to your top ten it is a pretty striking difference.
 
Last edited:
I wonder if there is any way to leave the federal gas tax in place while adding the mileage/weight based fees for all vehicles?

I know that any state move to a mile/weight based fee would see the elimination of the state gas tax in the Energy State*, but maybe we can do something better on the federal level.

*except that one week in early 2021 when we didn't have much energy.
 
Last edited:
Dr. Keith said:
It has a huge impact on purchasing decisions.

The top selling vehicle in the US is the Ford F series (F-150, F-250, F-350) followed by Chevy's full sized truck line, the Silverado, and Ram's full sized lineup. The only two cars in the top ten are the Camry and Civic.

Compared to your top ten it is a pretty striking difference.
Click to expand...

//Hijack//

About half of the sites I go to as part of my job are in hospitals with parking garages.

I hate, hate, hate, hate, hate the fact that you can just tell they still to this day design the traffic flow, parking space size, and lane width for parking garages around the idea of an "average sized car" from 30 years ago instead of the modern SUV/Full Size Truck as daily driver landscape so every other vehicle is taking up half of the actual traffic lane.

The absolutely worse offender is the "Compact Car Only" spot they tend to put at the end of the lanes so you can actually make the turn which almost always have a vehicle in it ranging from size from "Full Sized Extended Cab, Extended Bed, Extended Front, Extended Bumpers F-950 dualie with a trailer hitch that sticks out 27 additional feet" to "The actual Battleship Potemkin."
 
Last edited:
It's gotten so bad that when he was reviewing the original HUMVEE/Hummer H1, Doug Demuro pointed out how... small it is. I mean it's not a subcompact by any means and it's a boxy vehicle with squared off sides so it looks way bigger then it is and we've normalized the outline/silhouette of it as being "big" in our heads but it's an amazingly short vehicle, narrower then every single full size truck currently being sold, it's actually shorter then a modern Toyota Camry.

Cars have gotten huge over the last few decades.

In 1991 in its first year a Ford Explorer, one of the first SUVs, was 184 inches long. A 2021 Volkswagen Jetta is 182.
 
Last edited:
JoeMorgue said:
It's gotten so bad that when he was reviewing the original HUMVEE, Doug Demuro pointed out how... small it is. I mean it's not a subcompact by any means and it's a boxy vehicle with squared off sides so it look bigger then it is and we've normalized the outline of it as "big" but it's an amazingly short vehicle, narrower then every single full size truck currently being sold, it's actually shorter then a modern Toyota Camry.
Click to expand...

I don't remember Doug's review, but one thing that is remarkable is how tight those things are on the inside. That dog house in the middle leaves little room for the driver and passengers.
 
JoeMorgue said:
//Hijack//

About half of the sites I go to as part of my job are in hospitals with parking garages.
Click to expand...

As the driver of a "Full Sized Extended Cab, Extended Bed, Extended Front, Extended Bumpers F-950 dualie with a trailer hitch that sticks out 27 additional feet" I am very aware of the problems you mention.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom