The Biden Presidency

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Manchin is a Democrat (nominally), I doubt he benefits from driving down city turnout. Maybe he faces primary challenges from the left, but if he's squaring off against a more conservative Republican I doubt low city turnout helps.

His last election he won 49-46.

His last election he literally said he didn't give a **** whether he won or lost. He won anyway. But sure, if you ignore all that I'm sure there's some way to pressure him into voting for something he's publicly been saying he is firmly against.
 
Manchin is a Democrat (nominally), I doubt he benefits from driving down city turnout. Maybe he faces primary challenges from the left, but if he's squaring off against a more conservative Republican I doubt low city turnout helps.

His last election he won 49-46.

That's a significant accomplishment in a state that went for Trump by around 40 points.
 
Truly impressive how the Democratic party find ways to totally **** themselves. They are on the cutting edge of technology when it comes to making themselves totally unlikeable.




https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/03/1400-stimulus-checks-eligibility-democrats-covid-relief-bill.html?utm_source=tw&utm_campaign=nym&utm_medium=s1



12 million less Americans will receive stimulus checks under the new means testing language added to the bill. 12 million that received aid under Trump, but won't under Biden. All this to save 0.63% of the total cost of the package.
How many of the 12 million will know that they would have gotten a payment under a different bill? And how many would change their vote because of that?

Also note that if you slice $1.9T into a number of small slices, then every part is small. It's not a good argument.
 
How many of the 12 million will know that they would have gotten a payment under a different bill? And how many would change their vote because of that?

Also note that if you slice $1.9T into a number of small slices, then every part is small. It's not a good argument.

They'll probably figure it out because they already got the $600 under Trump, but won't be getting the remaining 1400 under Biden.
 
Why do we even have a thread on this? I have it on good authority that Biden is president of a corporation, not the USA. Of course, I missed Trump's inauguration yesterday. How will I ever forgive myself?
 
How many of the 12 million will know that they would have gotten a payment under a different bill?
All of them, since they already did get them before.

And how many would change their vote because of that?
Unknown, but if the answer is anything over 1 in every 279 of those, it's greater than Biden's margin of victory was. How sure are you that it's under 1 in 279?

And that's ignoring the other voters. Whether personally affected by it or not, anybody can see what happens, and plenty of people who are doing just fine are interested in how much the government helps other people. And what they'd all see on this subject so far is that the previous (and better) Covid bill was passed by a Republican Senate and signed without any downgrading interference by a Republican President, then later the idea of $2000 apiece was first floated by Trump, then when Congress didn't do that Trump executive-ordered another $300 per month for the unemployed, then Democrats shortened the originally-planned benefit period by a few months, Democrats produced a bill with smaller unemployment benefits than last time, Democrats campaigned on the "immediate, first week" $2000 checks as if it had been their own idea & then watered it down to an eventual maybe someday $1400 & came up with a "well technically" excuse, and Democrats have now put even that through a couple of rounds of "well, not those people... not them either..."... while also detaching the minimum-wage increase that was already attached and finding another "well technically" excuse to hide behind for that as well.

How many votes is that worth from the whole voting population, not just the ones whom the Democrats are cutting out for no reason? What would be the threshold at which you'd decide not to treat those votes as disposable surplus?

...Especially given that the Democrats' actions on this have all been without a single Republican vote in Congress gained for it or an ounce of pressure from Republicans to cause it, but just entirely the internal machinations of the Democrats themselves? When the other party isn't involved at all, it's not "compromise"; you're just revealing what you actually wanted yourself all along. And in this case, the DP is revealing that what it wants is to do less for the people than the maniacally self-absorbed Republican President whom they just finished a campaign against.

(And some people in this thread are treating the DP as the automatic default party to vote for because they're just so much more helpful than the RP. When is this ever supposed to start showing up in the DP's actual behavior? You may believe that the DP has that general reputation, but, for people who just follow what the politicians actually do when they get the chance instead of just listening to one side's rhetoric & excuses, it really doesn't, because it keeps going out of its way to not-earn it like this.)

Also note that if you slice $1.9T into a number of small slices, then every part is small. It's not a good argument.
The population is over 300 million. That's around $6000 apiece, without even adjusting for the fact that not every individual person gets anything at all. You might think of several thousand dollars as "small", but most people don't.
 
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How many of the 12 million will know that they would have gotten a payment under a different bill? And how many would change their vote because of that?

Also note that if you slice $1.9T into a number of small slices, then every part is small. It's not a good argument.

The main problem here is...why bother cutting it at all?

"Oh no, some people who aren't outright desperate may get some small sum of money, too!" Um...so? Maybe they'll spend a bit more - or even save it. What they *won't* do is get angry that "the dems caved", or start yelling about "those lazy <insert derogatory term here>" taking my money!" What's the actual point of making the means test somewhat stricter? At best there's no benefit whatsoever - and at worst it helps the party that has no interest in actually governing, has nothing to offer but zombie ideas and genital-waving bigotry, and is openly anti-democracy.

(I suspect that very last part still hasn't sunk into Manchin's head somehow - then again, quite a few people on the left haven't quite figured it out either.)
 
8 Democratic Senators voted down the attempt to attach the $15 minimum wage to the covid relief bill.

Yep, nearly a third.

2022 and 2024 are not going to be pretty
 
2022 and 2024 are not going to be pretty
Yep. 'Progressives' will refuse to compromise and opportunities to make real progress will be missed. Then they will blame Biden and 'Democrats' for it. And Republicans will gleefully join in the blame game even though they were 99% of the problem.

IOW, business as usual.
 
The main problem here is...why bother cutting it at all? <snip>
The 2022 and 2024 ad is easy to write:

Narrative: We Dems heard the complaints about profligate spending from fiscal conservatives and we took your concerns into account in our spending to alleviate the fiscal impacts of COVID. We fashioned out individual payments according to need rather than engaging in largess as Trump did, thus raising the debt by millions of dollars. We agree that being fiscally responsible is important but balanced that against the manifest needs of so many Americans. blah, blah ...

Those of you complaining about the cutoff are just letting the right set the context of the argument. The Dems should take a page out of Karl Rove's playbook and go at the enemy at his strong point. In this case, the GOP has successfully labeled the Dems as the party of tax and spend. To hell with them, hit them where they think they are safe: fiscal conservatism. Use good public policy to make good campaign strategy and then beat the GOP over the head with it.
 
Yep. 'Progressives' will refuse to compromise and opportunities to make real progress will be missed. Then they will blame Biden and 'Democrats' for it. And Republicans will gleefully join in the blame game even though they were 99% of the problem.



IOW, business as usual.
At the same time, we've been compromising on this issue for a decade or so and let me check my notes.

Oh, the minimum wage hasn't budged from where it was when we started.

This is the context "compromise" has for many people.
 
8 Democratic Senators voted down the attempt to attach the $15 minimum wage to the covid relief bill.

Yep, nearly a third.

2022 and 2024 are not going to be pretty

8 is nearly 1/3 of 50 now?
One of us must have made a mathematical error because in my book you have to get to 16 to have nearly a third of Democratic Senators.
 
Yep. 'Progressives' will refuse to compromise and opportunities to make real progress will be missed. Then they will blame Biden and 'Democrats' for it. And Republicans will gleefully join in the blame game even though they were 99% of the problem.

IOW, business as usual.

Yes, even though 84% of the Democratic Senators vote yes, let's pretend that the 8 who joined the GOP in sinking the proposal represent the Dems more completely than the other 42. And let's blame the 42 for not getting it done rather than the 50 + 8 who actually prevented it from happening.
 

From survey conclusions (highlighting mine)
This is a long-running trend, of voters, especially Republican voters, denying the extremism of the positions that the party holds on questions of political economy. Matthew Yglesias, formerly of Vox, terms this phenomenon “the politics of incredulity.” For him, such voters are a major reason why these conditions persist. He argues “voters find [the Republican Party’s position on economic issues] so outlandishly bad that they’ll only believe someone espouses them if you can convince them first that the person in question is a heartless monster.” For Republican voters in particular, Yglesias adds: “Consequently, people who align with Republicans on broad values themes — whether opposition to abortion rights, love of guns, patriotism, or panic at the thought of a diversifying country — find it simply not credible that their champions are actually running on a politically toxic agenda that would clearly lose elections.”​

America is so ******.
 
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8 Democratic Senators voted down the attempt to attach the $15 minimum wage to the covid relief bill.

Yep, nearly a third.

2022 and 2024 are not going to be pretty

If the minimum wage is part of the covid relief bill it can’t be passed as a reconciliation bill.

If we want that kind of progress we need to neutralize the filibuster first.
 
I'm very proud of the Biden administration so far. The comparison between it and the Trump's is between night and day and this is just the beginning. Trump invoked the Defense Production Act but never used it. Biden invokes it and gets pharmaceutical competitors to work together. Biden originally promised enough vaccines for every American by the end of July and now have moved that target date up to the end of May.

Trump's idea of leadership was getting people to lie for him and actually destroy government. Biden has a lot to fix, but he's starting well.
 
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I'm very proud of the Biden administration so far. The comparison between it and the Trump's is between night and day and this is just the beginning.

I can't honestly say that I'm very proud of the Biden Administration, given that that would require feelings of connectedness to such that I just... don't have in general. I can, however, say that I'm generally pleased with what's been done and what's in the works, especially under the circumstances. I have no illusions that they'll somehow be perfect in every way, of course, but they're doing quite well overall.

Trump invoked the Defense Production Act but never used it.

Quibble - I seem to recall that he actually did use it in relation to ventilators... to basically try to steal credit for logistics that had already been sorted out.
 
Senator Mitt Romney tweeted

@SenatorRomney
I voted against the $1.9 trillion #COVID19 package because it’s full of wasteful spending unrelated to urgent pandemic needs. Republicans, in good faith, sought to negotiate a compromise bill that would have targeted COVID assistance to those who really need it.
 
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