Ed Corona Virus Conspiracy Theories....

[MarkCorrigan]

That's 500,000 American people, and 2 million "others".

Yes, this pisses me off! Seems like Americans have claimed this disease for themselves and the rest of the world is an afterthought.

I'm not American. I wanted to say millions but lowballed it in case someone objected.

 

[Cosmic Yak]

From an Angry RN on Covid 19, believe it or not, conspiracy or not...I believe it and felt this way from Day 1.

Self-pegged as a true believer from day one. The science obviously doesn't matter to you. The death toll doesn't matter. The overflowing hospitals don't matter. The simple measures that can be taken to stop the spread don't matter, because you're supremely confident that your pre-conceived notions are all that do matter.

It's bleakly refreshing to see a blind zealot who flat out owns their staggering ignorance. Who flat out owns their illusory superiority. Crikey, you run it up a flagpole.

Quite. Caroline13 is openly admitting that her position is not evidence-based: it's more of an emotional reaction.
Nothing wrong with emotional reactions, of course, but if they are contradicted by all of the available factual evidence, then the sensible thing to do would be to examine that reaction, reassess it, and perhaps conclude that over-hasty, knee-jerk reactions are not always reliable.

 

[Steve]

I'm not American. I wanted to say millions but lowballed it in case someone objected.

My mistake. I assumed you were American because the "hundreds of thousands" reference seemed similar to a number of other posts here. Worldwide covid deaths approaching 2.5 million is, imo, a much more important number than the half million USA deaths.

 

[Foster Zygote]

Wow. So you ignore that I pointed out that he did not have any underlying conditions and simply assert that he did. Your arrogance is staggering.

The major draw of conspiracy theories is justification for belief in one's own intellectual superiority. But in Caroline's case she's made it clear that she needs to believe that she's superior to others in health, as well.

 

[Cosmic Yak]

You choose the ONE you live in, I have an open mind and look at as much as I can and make my decisions.

Err...no, you don't:

From an Angry RN on Covid 19, believe it or not, conspiracy or not...I believe it and felt this way from Day 1.

Caroline13, which is it? Did you look at a lot of evidence before deciding, or did you simply feel that way from the very beginning?

 

[Carrot Flower King]

Oh, we're back into anecdote again. And nurse-based this time!

So, my sister (Band 7 in palliative care) and all her colleagues say Covid exists, as several of them had it, they've seen many patients with it and they've read mucho evidence; the specialist nurse from my cardiology team (Band 7 also) I spoke to a couple of weeks ago says it exists, as her team have seen enough folk with it and half the team has been diverted away from normal cardiology duties to other areas because of it; I (retired Band 7) say it exists, as I've read shedloads of that science stuff.

There, we out rank some eejit on Youtube or wherever.

 

[Steve]

Err...no, you don't:



Caroline13, which is it? Did you look at a lot of evidence before deciding, or did you simply feel that way from the very beginning?

A contradiction in a CT? Say it aint so.

 

[MarkCorrigan]

My mistake. I assumed you were American because the "hundreds of thousands" reference seemed similar to a number of other posts here. Worldwide covid deaths approaching 2.5 million is, imo, a much more important number than the half million USA deaths.

No worries, it's all good.

 

[kookbreaker]

Wow. So you ignore that I pointed out that he did not have any underlying conditions and simply assert that he did. Your arrogance is staggering.

Blaming the victim is the first defense of the health nut or faith healer.

 

[Foster Zygote]

Blaming the victim is the first defense of the health nut or faith healer.

I get the impression that Caroline is far more concerned with the vulnerability of her own health than she lets on, and that assuring herself that others have died because they were negligent, or physically inferior to her, is a means for self-comfort.

 

[jimbob]

Part of a thread claiming Covid's not causing the deaths

https://twitter.com/ClareCraigPath/status/1366823040273760257

Dr Clare Craig
@ClareCraigPath
·
21h
Normal
0%
There's a serious problem with excess deaths in the under 64s at the moment.

The peak was far higher than in the older groups and it is not coming down as fast. The difference amounts to over 700 deaths in 60-64 yrs and 1000 in the under 60s.

This is not COVID (see next graph)
Dr Clare Craig
@ClareCraigPath
·
21h
Normal
0%
COVID deaths are tracking for every age group as a percentage of the Spring peak.
Dr Clare Craig
@ClareCraigPath
Normal
0%
Replying to
@ClareCraigPath
The excess death graph is calculated by taking each week of deaths, subtracting the number of deaths the week of the minimum in September and then taking the percentage compared with the Spring peak.

Yes

and look at the September minimum, which makes it even more "eccentric" than it seems:

Yes there's a bank holiday effect - unless she's not being clear in what she says. And sadly, I do think she believes what she writes.

 

[Craig4]

Not that our deniers want to be educated but actual skeptics may find this of value. The Economist did a pretty good deep dive into global excess deaths in 2020. The US was at 138 per 100,000 in 2020. It's a vain hope but our deniers might want to read the article as it's instructive as to what real study methodology looks like.

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/coronavirus-excess-deaths-tracker

 

[Hans]

I don't know about the polynesians and the European disease.

Hawaiians lost 84% of their population after exposure to European diseases - they had a remarkably healthy life style so why did they die?

 

[varwoche]

I was fixated on Pastor Chuck Baldwin during the 2008 election cycle.

Ron Paul, Chuck Baldwin and Christopia

He's the whackjob who relocated to Montana to join The American Redoubt, and who ran for POTUS (with Ron Paul's endorsement). Baldwin believes that the covid crisis is the work of the devil -- not the pandemic, but the actions of the government. But he differs from like-minded individuals like Mike Lindell. Baldwin is anti Trump.

I'll dig up the link on request. Its a long, tedious audio recording.

I should mention ... Though he's not a comedian, Pastor Chuck reminds me of George Carlin.

 

[Cosmic Yak]

A contradiction in a CT? Say it aint so.

Actually, my post was more for the benefit of Caroline13.
The effects of cognitive biases on our judgement are fairly common knowledge on this forum. I'm not sure to what extent she is aware of them- I certainly didn't know much about this before I joined this forum. Since then, I have learned a great deal, both from what's been posted here, and the further reading this forum has inspired me to do, and this better understanding has proved invaluable.
I'm hoping the same thing will happen with Caroline13- a bit of reflection on how she arrived at her conclusions, and a better understanding of how things like confirmation bias can skew our reasoning.

 

[jimbob]

Part of a thread claiming Covid's not causing the deaths

https://twitter.com/ClareCraigPath/status/1366823040273760257



Yes

[qimg]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EvkVEL0XYAIjNpX?format=png&name=small[/qimg]

and look at the September minimum, which makes it even more "eccentric" than it seems:

[qimg]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EvkVHz8WQAYrlBc?format=png&name=small[/qimg]

Yes there's a bank holiday effect - unless she's not being clear in what she says. And sadly, I do think she believes what she writes.

I've now tried applying what I think is her method of calculating excess deaths to every week since wk31, 1999, and highlighting the positive excess values (above the minimum for September for that year) to them

[IMGW=640]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Evk-9LyXYAIAMaV?format=png&name=medium[/IMGW]

The pink cells are the weeks that would be counted as excess according to that method.

 

[Tom Palven]

The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

Pope Anthony is VERY worried about mutations!
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/oth...in-these-2-states/ar-BB1eazd3?ocid=uxbndlbing

 

[The Great Zaganza]

He and every other epidemiologist.

 

[Axxman300]

He and every other epidemiologist.

Yes, since April of last year:

https://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJMoa2006100

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2006100

The important message in this second one:

Thus, the frequency of the SARS-CoV-2 infection in the overall Icelandic population was stable from March 13 to April 1, a finding that appears to indicate that the containment measures had been working. However, the virus has spread to the extent that unless we continue to test and isolate, track contacts, and quarantine, we are likely to fail in our efforts to contain the virus.

For non-scientific folks:

https://nypost.com/2020/03/24/iceland-scientists-found-40-mutations-of-the-coronavirus-report-says/

Scientists in Iceland found 40 mutations of the coronavirus among people with the deadly bug in the country — and that seven infections came from people who attended the same soccer match in the UK, according to a report.

The researchers discovered the mutations — or small changes in the genome of the virus — by analyzing swabs of COVID-19 patients in the country, where nearly 648 cases had been reported as of Tuesday afternoon, according to the Iceland outlet Information.

Personal note: This scientific record is why I love the scientific method. Many hours of tedious work went into these two reports alone.

 

[Foster Zygote]

He and every other epidemiologist.

No ****. Even someone who paid attention in high school senior biology class would understand why that's an all too likely danger. It's depressing just how proud some people are of their own ignorance.