Electric Vehicles

[Distracted1]

I'm sorry. I disagree. In some ways it is easier to maintain your own vehicle than ever before. You can purchase an OBD scanner for under $100. You can buy a very advanced one for under $200. The codes are all public now. You can easily Google or search on YouTube whatever problem you might be experiencing and there is a good probability that someone else has encountered and made a video on solving it. When I had my first car, I guessed a lot. Not any more.

Indeed.
Although, the available space under the hood for making the repairs has steadily decreased over the years. And the prevalence of brittle plastic connectors is even more annoying than rust once was.

 

[acbytesla]

I don't mind the model for some things, like MS Office. I don't want to have to upgrade every few years and the subscription is relatively cheap compared to the old over the counter cost. I have that software for work and I can expense the cost so having it spread out is probably easier.

For business owners, I can see that. For personal use, I hate it. But I'm cheap. Usually software like MS Office would come with the computer. Microsoft sold it at a discounted price. And I'd pretty much never upgraded it. If there was some great new bell or whistle, I'd buy a new computer. This led me to having different computers for different applications.

If my car needs were more normal I would consider something like volvo's subscription service that allows you to trade in the car on a regular basis. Seems like it could really work for some use cases. But certainly not for everyone.

Makes sense but I'm not a doctor. Don't make those big bucks.

 

[Dr. Keith]

Makes sense but I'm not a doctor. Don't make those big bucks.

Yeah, me neither. Sucks.

 

[acbytesla]

Indeed.
Although, the available space under the hood for making the repairs has steadily decreased over the years. And the prevalence of brittle plastic connectors is even more annoying than rust once was.

Yea, I've cursed my share of plastic connectors that I've broke. I've also taken ten things off to get at the buried hard to get at component that needs to be repaired.

I also love Harbor Freight. They often sell the tool I need for a price that I can afford. It usually doesn't compare to Snap On or Matco in quality, but I don't make living with them.

 

[bruto]

There are a lot of cheap tools that will do the job you need just once or twice.

I always have to throw in my one big exception to this. Even medium decent (Craftsman, etc.) brake line wrenches are not good enough. Get the ridiculously expensive K-D, Snap-on, etc. ones. They won't slip on the fittings, They'll last forever and you'll never be sorry you have them.

 

[Fast Eddie B]

The difference is with a traditional car "Oh you'll void your warranty if you do your own repair" becomes a hollow threat after your warranty expires...

It's mostly a howl threat even before the warranty expires, thanks to the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson–Moss_Warranty_Act

In short, they can't void your warranty for doing your own work or having someone else so it, unless they can prove that improperly performed work was the proximate cause of the problem. Similarly, they can't mandate that you use their branded parts, such as filters or fluids or the like, unless they provide those parts for free.

 

[acbytesla]

There are a lot of cheap tools that will do the job you need just once or twice.

I always have to throw in my one big exception to this. Even medium decent (Craftsman, etc.) brake line wrenches are not good enough. Get the ridiculously expensive K-D, Snap-on, etc. ones. They won't slip on the fittings, They'll last forever and you'll never be sorry you have them.

I know they are much better. It's the ridiculously expensive that usually stops me.

I have the cheap Harbor Freight flare wrenches and i have never not been able to do a brake job with them. But then I routinely spray oil on all those undercarriage fittings to prevent any rust.

The one expensive tool I wish I had was a lift. So much easier to do those jobs standing up as opposed to on my back.

 

[Fast Eddie B]

Most here know we bought a Honda Clarity plug-in hybrid back in 2018. A fully charged battery takes it between about 34 to about 55 miles, depending on weather, speed and driving habits. It then reverts to a "pure" hybrid mode, where a 1.5 liter gas engine usually provides electricity to power the wheels and charge the battery, and in specific instances to directly drive the front wheels via a clutch. It's all pretty elegant and transparent in use. Today I was driving along the Ocoee River in E TN in hybrid mode and took a little video of a display that shows how power is flowing from the engine and how electricity is flowing from or into the battery.

https://youtu.be/Ixz5CVbbpqc

If you look closely, there's a little white dot that shows up intermittently between the front wheels. Its actually a little gear icon and shows when power is flowing directly from the engine to the wheels. It's allegedly the most efficient use of engine power, avoid the losses involved in charging and discharging the battery to provide power.

Here's a diagram of what goes on behind the scenes:

I'll admit the PHEV's are just transitional on the way to an all-electric future, but it's perfect for us right now.

 

[Shalamar]

My understanding is regarding when a vehicle is sold to a second owner and not about unauthorized repairs.

Yes. beyond the very early cars, lifetime supercharging (No longer available) was tied to the user, not the car.

My (and others) Bone of contention is that people have done repairs/salvage on teslas, paid a hefty sum to Tesla to validate the repairs so they can use the supercharger network, and then later, Tesla changes their mind and disables the ability anyways.

Repairs on teslas are notoriously expensive, due to lack of parts and availability. And Tesla disables all supercharging now on on salvaged vehicles, even if the electrical/drive system is undamaged.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

I doubt that is going to happen that quickly if at all. Still, I imagine a great many people not owning a vehicle and autonomous vehicles charging around the corner driving to and taking you to your destination and then going to another charging lot or space.

This is what I see as well, self driving vehicles seem to be likely to be very expensive, why own something 24/7 that you only need for one or two hours, six days a week? It seems radical to us now but we're totally immersed in a personal transport model that has only really existed for less than a century, it's been incredibly successful, but I can see the next generation seeing ownership of a car completely differently.

I suspect this will be a problem for me as my business involves driving around with lots of dogs after they, and me, have gotten ourselves very muddy, & that doesn't tend to go down well when someone else owns the car, that & all the stuff I have in my car 'in case I need it', but that's how societal change happens, I'm sure they will be enough of us that something shakes out.

 

[acbytesla]

Yes. beyond the very early cars, lifetime supercharging (No longer available) was tied to the user, not the car.

My (and others) Bone of contention is that people have done repairs/salvage on teslas, paid a hefty sum to Tesla to validate the repairs so they can use the supercharger network, and then later, Tesla changes their mind and disables the ability anyways.

Repairs on teslas are notoriously expensive, due to lack of parts and availability. And Tesla disables all supercharging now on on salvaged vehicles, even if the electrical/drive system is undamaged.

I always wonder if they are doing that for a legitimate reason or simply a made up excuse.

 

[acbytesla]

This is what I see as well, self driving vehicles seem to be likely to be very expensive, why own something 24/7 that you only need for one or two hours, six days a week? It seems radical to us now but we're totally immersed in a personal transport model that has only really existed for less than a century, it's been incredibly successful, but I can see the next generation seeing ownership of a car completely differently.

I suspect this will be a problem for me as my business involves driving around with lots of dogs after they, and me, have gotten ourselves very muddy, & that doesn't tend to go down well when someone else owns the car, that & all the stuff I have in my car 'in case I need it', but that's how societal change happens, I'm sure they will be enough of us that something shakes out.

I imagine that most of these autonomous vehicles will be made so they can be washed out with a hose. Still, who wants to get into a filthy car.

 

[SezMe]

https://youtu.be/Ixz5CVbbpqc

I got car sick.

 

[Fast Eddie B]

I got car sick.

Funny - in the car of course I was fine. Watching it did make me feel a little "off".

 

[P.J. Denyer]

I'm sorry. I disagree. In some ways it is easier to maintain your own vehicle than ever before. You can purchase an OBD scanner for under $100. You can buy a very advanced one for under $200. The codes are all public now. You can easily Google or search on YouTube whatever problem you might be experiencing and there is a good probability that someone else has encountered and made a video on solving it. When I had my first car, I guessed a lot. Not any more.

I had to replace mine after I asked my wife to get everything out of the car I was trading in while I signed the paperwork and she picked it up looked at it and decided that it was supposed to go with the car...

I bought a bluetooth scanner that pairs to a free smartphone app for £6.99! It reads codes & automatically looks them up in a database and displays all the realtime data from the system. Seriously, it was less than $10!

 

[bruto]

I saw a recent item on the net noting that there's an upsurge in electric school bus orders.

That sounds like a really good trend. School buses already are very economical from a person-per-mile standpoint, but they emit a good bit of pollution and cost a fair amount in fuel. But a large part of a school bus's running time is done standing still while kids board and exit, since not only must they stop for this, but wait until the kids are safely off the road.

It remains to be seen whether the first cost is reasonable enough. An electric vehicle should be cheap to maintain, and last a long time, but at least here in New England, school buses are often taken off the road not for wear and tear but rust, so we'll have to wait and see how it all balances out. I would think, though, that for urban and suburban use, where there are very many stops and relatively short mileages, it would pay off well.

 

[MRC_Hans]

I saw a recent item on the net noting that there's an upsurge in electric school bus orders.

That sounds like a really good trend. School buses already are very economical from a person-per-mile standpoint, but they emit a good bit of pollution and cost a fair amount in fuel. But a large part of a school bus's running time is done standing still while kids board and exit, since not only must they stop for this, but wait until the kids are safely off the road.

It remains to be seen whether the first cost is reasonable enough. An electric vehicle should be cheap to maintain, and last a long time, but at least here in New England, school buses are often taken off the road not for wear and tear but rust, so we'll have to wait and see how it all balances out. I would think, though, that for urban and suburban use, where there are very many stops and relatively short mileages, it would pay off well.

Or, perhaps buyers, now they can get a low-maintenance drive train, should demand vehicles that don't rust. Obviously, suppliers will not like that, because vehicles with a life-span of several decades are not good for business, but if customers insist, they are going to have to supply them.

Hans

 

[acbytesla]

I had to replace mine after I asked my wife to get everything out of the car I was trading in while I signed the paperwork and she picked it up looked at it and decided that it was supposed to go with the car...

I bought a bluetooth scanner that pairs to a free smartphone app for £6.99! It reads codes & automatically looks them up in a database and displays all the realtime data from the system. Seriously, it was less than $10!

I see the ads for them all the time. I paid $169 for my scanner.

 

[Lplus]

Or, perhaps buyers, now they can get a low-maintenance drive train, should demand vehicles that don't rust. Obviously, suppliers will not like that, because vehicles with a life-span of several decades are not good for business, but if customers insist, they are going to have to supply them.

Hans

Low maintenance does not necessarily equal a lifespan of several decades. True a rust free shell can have the running gear replaced multiple times, but that equipment still has to be produced decades after the construction of the vehicles - and the manufacturers can charge for the spares instead of a new vehicle.

 

[MRC_Hans]

Low maintenance does not necessarily equal a lifespan of several decades. True a rust free shell can have the running gear replaced multiple times, but that equipment still has to be produced decades after the construction of the vehicles - and the manufacturers can charge for the spares instead of a new vehicle.

An electrical drive train has the potential for a long life: Few moving parts, relatively low working temperatures, no parts that are intrinsically prone to wear out (e.g. clutches).

Only life-span problem is the battery, but that can be replaced. And be reused.

Of course, any needed spare parts will come at a price. How else should they be produced?

Hans