The Biden Presidency

[Segnosaur]

Note - the following link is not to a news article, but rather to a blog done by a resident.

Things are very very bad in Texas

I suppose we'll see how the Biden Administration ends up handling it.

Maybe Biden can go down there personally and toss them some paper towels.

Sent from my LM-X320 using Tapatalk

 

[timhau]

Yeah, they voted for T***, so by T*** standards - the most luxurious, classy standards other people's money can buy - screw 'em.

 

[Aridas]

I suppose that I should say that I think that it'd be great if predictable aid for Texas came attached with conditions for connecting Texas' power grid to the rest of the US, which would fairly certainly help everyone except for the power profiteers.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Yes. As in that was *quite* clear all along. More specifically, it was that the $2000 was the promised number that the Democrats were pushing for and the $600 was what they had to settle for to get any relief actually happening. The $1400 is pretty much an action to finish that particular push.

Is there any news piece from the GA election period that lays this out explicitly?

The two GA senate candidates were running on $2000 checks pretty explicitly, and this was after the $600 relief checks had already gone out.

It seems to me there was a failure of clear political messaging here. I don't think bad faith Berniebro deadenders like myself are the only people out there who were under the impression that the $2000 promise didn't mean an additional $1400, but actually $2000.

I mean, can you really blame people for feeling cheated when this is what they heard during the GA special election:

“If you send Jon [Ossoff] and the reverend [Raphael Warnock] to Washington, those $2,000 checks will go out the door, restoring hope and decency for so many people who are struggling right now,” Biden said.

edit: I mean, look at this campaign ad from Warnock. It's literally a picture of a $2,000 check from the IRS. You can understand why this kind of messaging might lead to disappointment.

https://twitter.com/ReverendWarnock/status/1345082524402393088/photo/1

Edit 2: If the people pushing for tighter means testing have their way, many people that received the $600 "down payment" will not be eligible for the remaining $1400. That strikes me as extremely politically foolish.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

I would suggest you take a close look at any of your contacts saying this sort of thing.

One of the things I've been consciously mindful of since the election is sudden shifts in rhetoric following the political winds. On some other sites, users who I'd pegged as cypto-maga (the kind who'd never SAY they were devoted followers but gosh darn it if they didn't completely independently find identical reasons to support every single thing Trump did) have started using the exact argument you're giving here. I don't think you're intentionally spouting GOP talking points, but you ARE spouting GOP talking points. Maybe a little introspective house cleaning should be in order.

Yes, MAGA types will absolutely try to paint themselves as heroes of the common man and attack the Democrats from the left, if the Democrats let them.

That's probably why Democrats need to not be seen waffling on the issue of Covid relief. From a political standpoint, they have the opportunity to directly give voters money, and it's even the right thing to do instead of just transactional vote buying in this case. I sincerely hope they don't screw this one up.

You can't fight right wing populism through centrist austerity. That's my point.

The stinginess of McConnell has given the Democrats a golden opportunity to be directly responsible for material conditions of desperate people getting better. They should do their best not to **** it up and throw the austerity hawks out of the room.

 

[wareyin]

I would suggest you take a close look at any of your contacts saying this sort of thing.

One of the things I've been consciously mindful of since the election is sudden shifts in rhetoric following the political winds. On some other sites, users who I'd pegged as cypto-maga (the kind who'd never SAY they were devoted followers but gosh darn it if they didn't completely independently find identical reasons to support every single thing Trump did) have started using the exact argument you're giving here. I don't think you're intentionally spouting GOP talking points, but you ARE spouting GOP talking points. Maybe a little introspective house cleaning should be in order.

Once you go left far enough, you (general) are pretty indistinguishable from the right.

 

[Horatius]

Yes. As in that was *quite* clear all along. More specifically, it was that the $2000 was the promised number that the Democrats were pushing for and the $600 was what they had to settle for to get any relief actually happening. The $1400 is pretty much an action to finish that particular push.

...except that they were still saying they'd do 2000 after the 600 had already been done.

I think it's been well-established that at the time, they were talking about the $1400 top-up payments. That someone else latched onto, "No, we mean $2000 right now!" as a message isn't Biden's fault.

It's okay to suggest that the plan should be the full $2000 right now, which people like AOC have been suggesting for quite a while, but you can't put the blame for other people's misunderstandings on Biden.

So, stop arguing about "what it meant", and just make the case for the $2000 straight up. There's actually a good case to be made for that, and almost certainly more. The anemic response of the richest country in history has been nothing less than an international embarrassment, after all, but that's the sort of thing American Voters have decided to support for decades now.

If you can't convince people to support economic change now, after almost a year-long economic disaster that isn't the fault of any business or employee, you'll never convince them. So go for it.

Just stop whining about how you didn't understand the math two months ago, because that makes you look like a whiny loser.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

I think it's been well-established that at the time, they were talking about the $1400 top-up payments. That someone else latched onto, "No, we mean $2000 right now!" as a message isn't Biden's fault.

It's okay to suggest that the plan should be the full $2000 right now, which people like AOC have been suggesting for quite a while, but you can't put the blame for other people's misunderstandings on Biden.

So, stop arguing about "what it meant", and just make the case for the $2000 straight up. There's actually a good case to be made for that, and almost certainly more. The anemic response of the richest country in history has been nothing less than an international embarrassment, after all, but that's the sort of thing American Voters have decided to support for decades now.

If you can't convince people to support economic change now, after almost a year-long economic disaster that isn't the fault of any business or employee, you'll never convince them. So go for it.

Just stop whining about how you didn't understand the math two months ago, because that makes you look like a whiny loser.

Isn't it the job of politicians to communicate effectively to prevent these kinds of misunderstandings?

I mean, if one person didn't get it, they're an idiot. If lots of people didn't understand, the people communicating are at fault.

I don't think there's any public polling on this specific question to know how widespread this sense of disappointment is, so it's hard to say one way or the other.

 

[Beelzebuddy]

Yes, MAGA types will absolutely try to paint themselves as heroes of the common man and attack the Democrats from the left, if the Democrats let them.

That's probably why Democrats need to not be seen waffling on the issue of Covid relief. From a political standpoint, they have the opportunity to directly give voters money, and it's even the right thing to do instead of just transactional vote buying in this case. I sincerely hope they don't screw this one up.

You can't fight right wing populism through centrist austerity. That's my point.

The stinginess of McConnell has given the Democrats a golden opportunity to be directly responsible for material conditions of desperate people getting better. They should do their best not to **** it up and throw the austerity hawks out of the room.

From a political standpoint, I'd rather see them grant statehood to DC and PR, or reform the Electoral College by updating the 1929 Reapportionment Act, or outlaw gerrymandering, or pretty much anything else. They're going to run into the same GOP opposition either way (complete and total denial while screaming about socialism), so they should be using this opportunity to generate a more permanent change for good than a one-time payment no one will remember in a months' time. The GOP however, would LOVE for the Democrats to piss away their slim majority with infighting about useless crap.

Again, you're parroting GOP propaganda. They are not parroting yours. Turn a critical eye on your sources.

Once you go left far enough, you (general) are pretty indistinguishable from the right.

Not at all, though you hear that a lot because it makes it easier for centrists to smugly dismiss progressives without really considering their positions.

In this case it's far-right apologists suddenly becoming far-left trolls, and people on the left not immediately recognizing the divisive rhetoric for the agitprop it is.

 

[Delvo]

The two GA senate candidates were running on $2000 checks pretty explicitly, and this was after the $600 relief checks had already gone out.

It seems to me there was a failure of clear political messaging here. I don't think bad faith Berniebro deadenders like myself are the only people out there who were under the impression that the $2000 promise didn't mean an additional $1400, but actually $2000.

Worse than the dishonesty of saying "$2000 checks" and then pretending "$1400 checks" is the same thing, are the attitude behind the shift (looking for some technicality to excuse going as low as possible) and the own-foot-shooting political strategy (avoidance of doing anything that might make them too popular).

 

[Delvo]

Right & left is the wrong spectrum on which to analyze American politics. The correct one is populism &... antipopulism I guess, or elitism.

Things that would benefit most of the people are popular. Each party is most successful when it convinces people that it's the populist party and the other one is the opposite. The Democrats' self-destructiveness lies not in constantly leaving themselves open to attack from the left, but in constantly leaving themselves open to attack from the populist direction.

 

[wareyin]

Not at all, though you hear that a lot because it makes it easier for centrists to smugly dismiss progressives without really considering their positions.

In this case it's far-right apologists suddenly becoming far-left trolls, and people on the left not immediately recognizing the divisive rhetoric for the agitprop it is.

When the far left starts parroting far right talking points, I'd say they're indistinguishable. Whether that's because the far left is acting as useful idiots for the far right by uncritically accepting and repeating those talking points, or because the far right can troll well enough to appear left doesn't really change that.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

From a political standpoint, I'd rather see them grant statehood to DC and PR, or reform the Electoral College by updating the 1929 Reapportionment Act, or outlaw gerrymandering, or pretty much anything else. They're going to run into the same GOP opposition either way (complete and total denial while screaming about socialism), so they should be using this opportunity to generate a more permanent change for good than a one-time payment no one will remember in a months' time. The GOP however, would LOVE for the Democrats to piss away their slim majority with infighting about useless crap.

I couldn't disagree with this more. The covid crisis is the most pressing issue at the moment, and if not properly managed, will eclipse pretty much any other issue.

A one time payment is just the start. Across the country, eviction moratoriums are going to end sooner or later (if they ever had them). Lots of people are months behind on rent from the covid induced economic slump and we're staring at the possibility of mass evictions unless there is a serious amount of direct relief.

$1400 vs 2000 is a drop in the bucket compared to people who are multiple months behind in their bills because they haven't been able to earn an adequate income since last spring.

These moratoriums are the right thing to do at the moment, but unless there is debt forgiveness or significant direct relief, it's only kicking the can down the road.

 

[rdwight]

I feel like there is a severe disconnect between the people affected and those that are not. It is noticable on things like realestate shooting through the roof, rent rising, the stock market at all time highs, crypto at all time highs and a laundry list of other indicators that dont reflect the reality of those that are directly harmed.

Relief really should be more targetted, half as many people should get twice as much money, but it would be political suicide. What was campaigned on and the people who expectes it are now the LEAST that can go out without severe pushback. Reason will have no part in peoples reaction to change on that point.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

I feel like there is a severe disconnect between the people affected and those that are not. It is noticable on things like realestate shooting through the roof, rent rising, the stock market at all time highs, crypto at all time highs and a laundry list of other indicators that dont reflect the reality of those that are directly harmed.

Relief really should be more targetted, half as many people should get twice as much money, but it would be political suicide. What was campaigned on and the people who expectes it are now the LEAST that can go out without severe pushback. Reason will have no part in peoples reaction to change on that point.

It's worth pointing out that, in the international context, it's really shocking how little the government has done to help people when the bottom fell out of the economy because of covid.

Our fellow western countries either already had robust social safety net provisions or implemented fairly robust covid relief to prevent people from free-falling into poverty as a result of covid. The US has done very little, and haggling over how much will be paid out in a second relief check is pretty bizarre in comparison to other countries that have been paying out more every single month

My fear is that, as other countries go forward into the post-covid world, the US is going to be mired by the lingering effects of doing nothing to address the dire economic needs of so many. The coming eviction boom is one such problem that seems to be uniquely American.

 

[wareyin]

It's worth pointing out that, in the international context, it's really shocking how little the government has done to help people when the bottom fell out of the economy because of covid.

Our fellow western countries either already had robust social safety net provisions or implemented fairly robust covid relief to prevent people from free-falling into poverty as a result of covid. The US has done very little, and haggling over how much will be paid out in a second relief check is pretty bizarre in comparison to other countries that have been paying out more every single month

My fear is that, as other countries go forward into the post-covid world, the US is going to be mired by the lingering effects of doing nothing to address the dire economic needs of so many. The coming eviction boom is one such problem that seems to be uniquely American.

I generally have the impression that other countries are helping out their people more, and as such will be much faster to bounce back economically than the US as well. But I haven't actually seen any evidence that other countries just pay their citizens anything at all, while the US has already sent out 2 payments with negotiations being made on the third. Do you have anything to back up the idea that other countries pay more every single month than what the US has paid out?

As for negotiation, the Dems have the slimmest of majorites. If one Senator breaks ranks they can't pass a single bill, which gives Manchin outsize power. When you have to appease even your own members to get anything done, you can't expect to be able to ram everything you want through to law.

 

[rdwight]

My fear is that, as other countries go forward into the post-covid world, the US is going to be mired by the lingering effects of doing nothing to address the dire economic needs of so many. The coming eviction boom is one such problem that seems to be uniquely American.

That one worries me the most currently. With the increased prices in real estate, foreclosures will most likely represent a smaller problem since people have equity in their homes. The bigger problem becomes, they enter a market with higher house prices, so the obvious solution is to rent. Not every area will have issues but there is an influx of renters into a market where rental properties are taking their profit by selling, remaining properties are increasing pricing and competition will weed out those that were most harmed during this time.

 

[Tomboy]

I generally have the impression that other countries are helping out their people more, and as such will be much faster to bounce back economically than the US as well. But I haven't actually seen any evidence that other countries just pay their citizens anything at all, while the US has already sent out 2 payments with negotiations being made on the third. Do you have anything to back up the idea that other countries pay more every single month than what the US has paid out?

There's a thread over in Non-US Politics with some examples of how other countries have handled that sort of thing:


Do countries other than the USA do "stimulus checks"?
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=349467

 

[TurkeysGhost]

I generally have the impression that other countries are helping out their people more, and as such will be much faster to bounce back economically than the US as well. But I haven't actually seen any evidence that other countries just pay their citizens anything at all, while the US has already sent out 2 payments with negotiations being made on the third. Do you have anything to back up the idea that other countries pay more every single month than what the US has paid out?

As for negotiation, the Dems have the slimmest of majorites. If one Senator breaks ranks they can't pass a single bill, which gives Manchin outsize power. When you have to appease even your own members to get anything done, you can't expect to be able to ram everything you want through to law.

There's discussion of in this other thread: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=349467

It's hard to generalize. Some of these countries really didn't have to do anything novel at all because pre-existing social safety net programs were adequate to provide for the population that got laid off. Some responded through cash payments. Some expanded unemployment payments enough that people who lost their jobs were still receiving nearly the same salary.

There's no single solution, but it's pretty clear that the United States hasn't done enough and that many people are falling behind on their bills and accruing insurmountable debt that will very much hinder their ability to bounce back once things return to normal.

 

[Horatius]

Do you have anything to back up the idea that other countries pay more every single month than what the US has paid out?

Canada does for sure. We've heavily re-vamped our Employment Insurance system to deal with the crisis, plus created more support systems outside the traditional EI system, to support small businesses and their employees who are still working at least part-time.

Just last night a friend of a friend borrowed my computer to complete his registration for EI. It was approved automatically, in a matter of minutes, they waived the traditional waiting period for benefits to start, and he's getting (I think he said) $1500 every two weeks.

People are hurting, but not anywhere nearly as badly in the US.

You can see a list of the Federal programs here. We also have a lot of provincial level programs.