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[ED] Discussion: Trans Women Are not Women (Part 6)

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Meadmaker said:
I can't recall. Were you one of the people who chimed into the "sports aren't important anyway" discussion?

The outcome is pretty important to the participants, and not just, or not even mostly, Ziggurat's scholarship comments.

People who don't like sports have been trying to convince people, especially kids, to not keep score for a few decades now. All it has gotten us is a childhood obesity epidemic.
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Sure, but outcome isn't the only concern. There are all kinds of rules for school sports, especially at younger ages, to be inclusive even when doing so is detrimental to their chances of success. Many leagues mandate minimum playing time for each player.
 
Meadmaker said:
I can't recall. Were you one of the people who chimed into the "sports aren't important anyway" discussion?

The outcome is pretty important to the participants, and not just, or not even mostly, Ziggurat's scholarship comments.

People who don't like sports have been trying to convince people, especially kids, to not keep score for a few decades now. All it has gotten us is a childhood obesity epidemic.
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...and widespread mediocrity
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
Sure, but outcome isn't the only concern. There are all kinds of rules for school sports, especially at younger ages, to be inclusive even when doing so is detrimental to their chances of success. Many leagues mandate minimum playing time for each player.
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Little kids sure. Learning the game and sportsmanship is nice.

Otherwise, this is just bad sports communism, ignoring all we know about incentives in human nature to achieve and strive for goals.
 
Sherkeu said:
Little kids sure. Learning the game and sportsmanship is nice.

Otherwise, this is just bad sports communism, ignoring all we know about incentives in human nature to achieve and strive for goals.
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One such element of "sports communism" is Title IX. Without this egalitarian stance being ridiculed here, women's sports in public schools would almost certainly have their budgets decimated.
 
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SuburbanTurkey said:
One such element of "sports communism" is Title IX. Without this egalitarian stance being ridiculed here, women's sports in public schools would almost certainly have their budgets decimated.
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Ironically, Title IX has led to some small schools having to decimate their budget for men's sports, simply because there wasn't enough demand from their women students to establish parity between men's and women's sports programs. If you have a men's track team, you gotta have a women's track team. But there's not enough women who want to be on a track team. Solution: get rid of the men's track team too. As usual, communism results in everyone being poor together.
 
theprestige said:
Ironically, Title IX has led to some small schools having to decimate their budget for men's sports, simply because there wasn't enough demand from their women students to establish parity between men's and women's sports programs. If you have a men's track team, you gotta have a women's track team. But there's not enough women who want to be on a track team. Solution: get rid of the men's track team too. As usual, communism results in everyone being poor together.
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Hell yeah, bring on the borscht comrade.
 
Ziggurat said:
It's rather disingenuous to just talk about middle school. The outcomes of high school games can be very important to the students involved, since they can impact scholarship chances. It's also at the high school level that biological differences become more pronounced, and transgender people are more likely to have come out by that age. And I don't think anyone wants to exclude trans kids from school sports. But trans girls don't have to be included with the other girls in order to be included. They can compete with the boys, since biologically that's what they are. Why is that not acceptable?
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Because they ARE NOT boys! And placing them in the same category as actual boys only serves to delegitimize them as girls and say that their identity isn't valid.

Sent from my moto g(7) using Tapatalk
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
One such element of "sports communism" is Title IX. Without this egalitarian stance being ridiculed here, women's sports in public schools would almost certainly have their budgets decimated.
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Wha???
Title IX should simply offer opportunity for a program, not equal outcome or fair playing time within female sports. It's just money for space, equipment and coaches.


Out this way, HS football is the big money maker. ymmv.
Myself, I never went to a public school so never benefited from public funding there-- and we managed with high performing girls teams (at an all-girl school there was nothing else!) but not all schools can do it.
Our 'brother' school paid for many of their boys programs with their football money. Works similar to title IX, just small and private, oh, and for boys- and some pro baseball players came out of that.
 
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Boudicca90 said:
Because they ARE NOT boys! And placing them in the same category as actual boys only serves to delegitimize them as girls and say that their identity isn't valid.
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Seems like, given the choice of validating an identity or validating a biology, validating the biology would be the healthier choice every time.

Sent from my moto g(7) using Tapatalk
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Admit it: This was sent from an iPhone 10 that identifies as a moto g(7).
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
Sure, but outcome isn't the only concern. There are all kinds of rules for school sports, especially at younger ages, to be inclusive even when doing so is detrimental to their chances of success. Many leagues mandate minimum playing time for each player.
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Anyone who doesn't see the obvious flaw in this comparison is not trying very hard.

ETA: Flaws
 
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Boudicca90 said:
Because they ARE NOT boys! And placing them in the same category as actual boys only serves to delegitimize them as girls and say that their identity isn't valid.
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You say that as if kids experimenting with gender expression, however valid and sincere, is a permanent condition. Most of the time it isn't.
Many will be just fine being boys again.
You didn't, but that is you, and not everyone.
 
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Boudicca90 said:
Because they ARE NOT boys!
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But they are males, with male biology. And the entire justification for sports segregation is biology, NOT gender identification.

And placing them in the same category as actual boys only serves to delegitimize them as girls and say that their identity isn't valid.
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Words like this don't really mean anything. It's all just subjective interpretation, and to the extent that the concept matters at all, it's a double-edged sword. You are delegitimizing biological girls when you let males compete against them.

Objectively, they have male physiology. I know you have claimed otherwise, but that is simply wrong. Objectively, they have significant advantages in athletic competition against females. Objectively, females stand little chance competing against them.
 
Sherkeu said:
You say that as if kids experimenting with gender expression, however valid and sincere, is a permanent condition.
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In this case, though, it doesn't matter. Even if every single one of them was 100% guaranteed to persist, it wouldn't make letting them compete against girls fair.
 
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