Cancel culture IRL

[Brainster]

A notable transphobic remark refers to an incident where she added "Beep/Bop/Boop" next to her name.

This pronoun thing seems largely to be just another melodramatic way of setting oneself up to be offended by the intolerance of the evil people around you. I'm perfectly fine with calling a transwoman "she", but if she's telling me I have to remember it's "they" instead she's just looking for an opportunity to take umbrage.

 

[HansMustermann]

And since you didn't answer I'll ask again: "Assuming that there actually is a 'culture war', why is objecting to someone posting antisemitism escalating the culture war while posting antisemitism isn't?"

I think what bothers me more is: how isn't it hypocritical?

Essentially the vast majority of racist, xenophobic, sexist or otherwise bigotted attitudes boil down to saying that a large number of people on the wrong side of that "us vs them" divide should be cancelled en masse. In fact, that they shouldn't even have the chance to compete for a whole lot of opportunities in the first place.

That's what they're actually saying when they say that race X are criminals, or lazy, or whatever. The quite transparent message is that you shouldn't hire those, or even allow them into your neighbourhood, or give them medical insurance or unemployment benefits. That's literally asking for those to be cancelled hard.

Or every time someone goes on about how women aren't good at X or Y, or that it's some agenda to get them into job Z, or that it's such a tragedy for society as a whole if she's not at home caring for the children full time, etc, that's what they're saying: they want to cancel half the population out of those jobs.

But if you object to it, it's somehow only you who's guilty of "cancel culture".

The guy saying that blacks are literally too stupid for most jobs? Nah, that's harmless and just free speech, apparently. But the guys objecting to him, now those are horrible people, apparently.

 

[JoeMorgue]

I think what bothers me more is: how isn't it hypocritical?.

I know I harp on this lot and I don't do it to be a dick (and to be 100% absolutely clear you are completely and totally correct) but just because so much discussion stalls out here.

They don't care. There is a sizable demographic of humanity right now that has made total and complete piece with being a hypocrite.

Usually because their hypocrisy gives them a world where their enemies have to follow rules that they don't and if you look at hypocrisy that way it makes perfect sense. It's a huge advantage if you just don't have moral standards to worry about.

If I'm a duel and I argue the other guy shouldn't get a gun but I should... I'm a hypocrite. But chances are pretty good I'm also winning that duel and the other guy isn't so, you know who really won that one?

 

[JoeMorgue]

We also can't be expected to forgive people if they've literally changed nothing.

If Gina Carrano had just... like stopped being a conspiracy spewing loon and make even the tiniest token effort... okay maybe there's a discussion on the table.

But this is "I expect forgiveness but will change literally nothing on my end." Listen you are going to give me some money if you expect Indulgences like that.

 

[tyr_13]

This would be laughable if I didn't know you were being completely serious. "A elegant" is genius-level ineptitude.

lmao! Right, you so care about a typo you miss me mocking your faux-authority attitude that has you giving grades out on an internet forum. I don't respect you enough to proof-read a post for such a small typo. But then the poster who opposes 'point scoring' to the extent that you'll decry the insistence that the distinction between desire and willingness, a distinction of paramount importance with regards to consent in a conversation about children consenting to sex as 'point scoring' will call out a missing 'n' as 'genius-level ineptitude'. Totally valid.

Now, I don't know if beep/bop/boop is some kind of dog whistle, but I'd expect she wouldn't either. Instead of mocking trans people, I'd just assume she was mocking "virtue-signalers."

It isn't a dog whistle; it is just straight mockery of declaring pronouns. Her statement is 'look what you made me do' and not the kind of apology one who unintentionally made such a mistake would almost undoubtedly make. She meant it.

'You'd assume' is worth what? Would you do the same and blame others if you made the same 'mistake'?

Her controversial COVID politics involves, among other things I'd assume, posting a meme: "Democratic government leaders now recommends [sic] we all wear blindfolds along with masks so we can't see what's really going."

Another:



Gina Carano definitely should not work in a public health department, and if she refuses to observe COVID workplace regulations, she should be disciplined like anyone else.

Why are you posting aggravating evidence arguing for her termination as if they were mitigating?

I love when people insist on each piece be viewed in isolation (which you're going to say you're not doing, but is exactly what you're doing) and if each one doesn't completely justify the action taken then the action was unjustified.

One Tweet that had critics calling her a Nazi involves a picture with dozens of soldiers performing the familiar salute. She circled a man who was NOT saluting:



Carano is an idiot, and maybe she gets Twitter critics she deserves. This clown censors the word Nazi and asks her to use another picture even though the picture is the whole point -- to show one person NOT saluting. The story Carano shares tugs the heart-strings of Hallmark watching airheads in the suburbs. The sort of people who are perfectly pleasant neighbors and co-workers -- and demented Facebook users.

Of course she's not staking out a position on the Laffer Curve, or urging the resurrection of the Balanced Budget Amendment. Those are not things regular people puzzle over. She's not getting DMs asking her to weigh on the latest report on child poverty from the Urban Institute.

A serious ongoing moral issue that gets virtually no attention is the mass-destruction/slaughter of sentient life. It's likely that many of you enthusiastically support it, and justify/rationalize it with all the reasoning power of a toddler. Even if this is more materially harmful than your bigoted brother-in-law's Parler account, it's perfectly understandable. Human beings are glorified apes susceptible to weird and foolish beliefs. People today are not less racist and homophobic because they're born with purer hearts. It's a matter of socialization.

As I noted earlier in the thread, all but socially maladjusted people know to avoid hurling racial epithets. In terms of COVID, we're less than a year into the pandemic, and so... some glorified apes will have dumb beliefs. It's not unreasonable for a person ignorant of infectious disease to play a role in a production of space opera. It's another matter entirely if she's angling to be President Lysol.

Sources: https://www.insider.com/gina-carano...-racist-for-sharing-a-photo-of-a-nazi-rally-1

https://www.insider.com/mandalorian-gina-carano-twitter-tweets-controversy-transphobic-2020-9

https://www.insider.com/fans-call-for-gina-carano-the-mandalorian-removal-anti-mask-2020-11

Appeal to worse problems and abstract wankery about humans being dumb in general is one step above 'what is reality man?' as far as handwaves go. I mean the 'well some of the criticisms of her by some people were unfair' is a better attempt, but still fails.

D-

 

[lobosrul5]

I have a hunch that the right wing people crying about "cancel culture" also are very much in support of at-will employment which makes it possible.

Yes, it's a problem that employers can upend their employees lives for basically no reason at all, including for off-work comments that have nothing to do with their job.

Let me know when the freaks shrieking about "cancel culture" start supporting labor rights and increasing unionization. Until then, I'll continue to not care about their incoherent complaints.

I agree with your characterization of the failure of libertarianism, which is why it's funny when right wingers complain about the logical conclusion of their chosen ideology.

Of course Carano was not an "at-will" employee. She had a contract with Disney who I have no doubt had an escape clause of some kind to do with her causing them public embarrassment. I'm also willing to bet that employees in other countries that don't have "at-will employment" can be fired for spouting racist or looney tunes conspiracy theories publicly online. Maybe some non-American posters can weigh in?

I'm not sure if it was you or not, but someone was pointing out that hypocrisy of some people knows no bounds. Which is very true. I've heard arguments from the right that its socialism/communism that they can face consequences for what they say on Twitter... so the government needs to step in and protect them. Ooookay.

 

[johnny karate]

I have a hunch that the right wing people crying about "cancel culture" also are very much in support of at-will employment which makes it possible.

Yes, it's a problem that employers can upend their employees lives for basically no reason at all, including for off-work comments that have nothing to do with their job.

Let me know when the freaks shrieking about "cancel culture" start supporting labor rights and increasing unionization. Until then, I'll continue to not care about their incoherent complaints.

I agree with your characterization of the failure of libertarianism, which is why it's funny when right wingers complain about the logical conclusion of their chosen ideology.

One of Carano’s most vocal supporters is Senator Ted Cruz.

Anyone believe for a second he’s actually working on legislation to address this Very Important Problem he keeps harping about?

 

[johnny karate]

This pronoun thing seems largely to be just another melodramatic way of setting oneself up to be offended by the intolerance of the evil people around you. I'm perfectly fine with calling a transwoman "she", but if she's telling me I have to remember it's "they" instead she's just looking for an opportunity to take umbrage.

This is just a rebranding of the well-worn “I’m only joking, you’re taking it too seriously” defense used by bullies and harassers since time immemorial to avoid taking responsibility for their behavior.

Newsflash: If you find it necessary to tiptoe right up to line of openly being an ***hole, you’re still an ***hole.

 

[Darat]

Of course it does. "cancel culture" is just a buzz phrase for the type of social ostracization that's existed since the dawn of time ( figuratively speaking ) I'm sure if we looked hard enough, we could come up with examples of this type of behaviour in the animal kingdom.

No we established early on in this thread that is not what those opposed to “cancel culture” are against as they claim it is something new and only recent.

 

[johnny karate]

Of course Carano was not an "at-will" employee. She had a contract with Disney who I have no doubt had an escape clause of some kind to do with her causing them public embarrassment. I'm also willing to bet that employees in other countries that don't have "at-will employment" can be fired for spouting racist or looney tunes conspiracy theories publicly online. Maybe some non-American posters can weigh in?

I'm not sure if it was you or not, but someone was pointing out that hypocrisy of some people knows no bounds. Which is very true. I've heard arguments from the right that its socialism/communism that they can face consequences for what they say on Twitter... so the government needs to step in and protect them. Ooookay.

Carano absolutely had a contract with a clause that protected Disney from her abhorrent behavior. And she absolutely had this pointed out to her by Disney and her own representatives any number of times after her repeated offenses.

But she chose to carry on behaving like a petulant child.

So let’s all pour one out for Gina Carano. Another victim of an insidious culture that holds people accountable for their actions.

 

[dirtywick]

I recently decided to change teams at work because my boss can’t shut the **** up about politics and I was miserable at work. I told my his boss the reason why when he asked. Is that ok?

I recently decided to stop watching a TV show because of the political statements of an actor on the show. I told the company making it why. Is that ok?

Am I responsible for what happens after that in either case?




Bonus question: what specific political views was Gina Carano fired for?

 

[Thermal]

I recently decided to change teams at work because my boss can’t shut the **** up about politics and I was miserable at work. I told my his boss the reason why when he asked. Is that ok?

I recently decided to stop watching a TV show because of the political statements of an actor on the show. I told the company making it why. Is that ok?

Am I responsible for what happens after that in either case?




Bonus question: what specific political views was Gina Carano fired for?

I finally googled her because I had no idea who she was. Turns out she played Angel Dust in Deadpool. Evidently did other stuff too.

Seems she compared Jews in Nazi Germany being hunted down to modern conservatives being harrassed in a tweet? I got her point, but man, she couldn't have presented it any more bone headed. Also some election fraud stuff and saying we need voter ID.

 

[Mumbles]

No we established early on in this thread that is not what those opposed to “cancel culture” are against as they claim it is something new and only recent.

Which leaves us with one major question, "what is Cancel Culture?"

Some additional questions: "Why are the people rushing to defend Carrano now, often the same people who denounced her character for being 'Forced diversity' and "getting woke" in Season 1 - a flaw which would lead to the show "going broke"?"

Now I know my answer - this is all little more than right-wing reactionary grievance, same as it was for Black Panther/Captain Marvel/Rey/Finn/etc., and nobody else cares much unless they notice them. A friend of mine recently said that day 1 HR training at most US major companies amounts to "Don't do this trash Gina Carrano is doing."

(Yes, there are people on the left that cater to grievances as well - last example I saw was goofy white people claiming that only black people should put Afro-puffs on their Animal Crossing characters. This went roughly nowhere at all, and I'm quite fine with that).

Also - little secret, I don't put my pronouns anywhere, but as a non-famous person I've never been asked to by anyone. But I know some people who have of their own accord and...well, the folks that yelp when they see it are, much like the people who added "deplorable" to their name, are invariably not worth talking to.

 

[Dr. Keith]

For those of us who value Carano’s acting way more than her politics, why should we care that she believes stupid ******???

You are in luck, it looks like she will be teaming up with the UFC folks so she can highlight her acting skills. Which may be fun to see. I've never really seen her act, I only caught her on the Mandalorian.

 

[Dr. Keith]

Okay but how does scrubbing Cara Dune make the world better?

Not sure, but someone at Disney thinks it makes Disney a better brand. If I were a shareholder, I may appreciate that. Alas, I am not.

Does it shrink her platform? Her profile's been given a boost, at least in the short-run. The firing is what makes the headlines. It's pushed her further into social media.

It creates distance between her platform and the Disney brand. Disney does not care about the total number of nuts on Twitter, they care about the number of those nuts that can impact the value of their brand. It believes this action* has reduced that number by one.


*Action being not writing Cara Dune into season 3, so far as I can tell. So, she didn't get fired so much as she didn't get rehired to a gig many assumed she would be rehired for. Sucks to be a contract employee sometimes.

 

[TragicMonkey]

*Action being not writing Cara Dune into season 3, so far as I can tell. So, she didn't get fired so much as she didn't get rehired to a gig many assumed she would be rehired for. Sucks to be a contract employee sometimes.

I haven't seen the show yet, but isn't it rather famous for having a main character always wearing a helmet? They could just stick a diffferent extra in every scene wearing the same outfit and helmet and say it's her character.

Or, being Star Wars and Disney, I bet she had to agree to have her likeness used by them however they like. They could CGI her in. I bet everybody in Star Wars has by now been contractually obligated to allow Dead Moff Tarkin-ing of themselves.

 

[Cavemonster]

Which leaves us with one major question, "what is Cancel Culture?"

I think it's one of the growing collections of "when liberals do it" buzzwords.

Caring about the words you use that might offend or hurt people is propriety or decency when conservatives do it. It's "political correctness when liberals do it.

When Trump spporters threatened to boycott the NFL because of athletes kneeling, that was standing up for their values and the free market. When liberals do it, it's "cancel culture".

Repeat for SJW, identity politics, and so on and so on.

 

[JoeMorgue]

You are in luck, it looks like she will be teaming up with the UFC folks so she can highlight her acting skills. Which may be fun to see. I've never really seen her act, I only caught her on the Mandalorian.

She was halfway okay as Angel Dust in the first Deadpool movie and she was in whichever of the last few Fast and the Furious movies I watched, the one that didn't have Ronda Rousey in it playing the exact same character.

I don't think she was going to win an Oscar playing Marie Curie ten years down the road regardless.

 

[JoeMorgue]

I haven't seen the show yet, but isn't it rather famous for having a main character always wearing a helmet? They could just stick a diffferent extra in every scene wearing the same outfit and helmet and say it's her character.

Or, being Star Wars and Disney, I bet she had to agree to have her likeness used by them however they like. They could CGI her in. I bet everybody in Star Wars has by now been contractually obligated to allow Dead Moff Tarkin-ing of themselves.

Replace her with Don Cheadle. And literally play it 100% straight.

 

[Cavemonster]

I haven't seen the show yet, but isn't it rather famous for having a main character always wearing a helmet? They could just stick a diffferent extra in every scene wearing the same outfit and helmet and say it's her character.

Or, being Star Wars and Disney, I bet she had to agree to have her likeness used by them however they like. They could CGI her in. I bet everybody in Star Wars has by now been contractually obligated to allow Dead Moff Tarkin-ing of themselves.

For their bottom line, writing her out is likely the solution with the least controversy going forward. Her character was not particularly essential to the plot as it stood. Maybe they'd planned to do more with her in the next season. But she can be written out a hell of a lot more easily than Roseanne.