Split Thread A second impeachment

[Norman Alexander]

CNN is reporting there are fifteen empty GOP seats during this session of the trial. Interesting. I guess they can't even be bothered to listen?

If they didn't see it then it didn't happen. So they don't have to accept the points being made. It's simply a variant of fingers in ears going la-la-la.

It's beyond childish. It is a dereliction of their sworn duties as senators. If they have no good excuse for their absence then they should be censured and required to attend.

An alternative is they are noted as "not present" when it comes to the vote to convict. Which could make that vote VERY interesting...

 

[Dr. Keith]

CNN is reporting there are fifteen empty GOP seats during this session of the trial. Interesting. I guess they can't even be bothered to listen?

Add some more empty seats when it comes voting time and this could go the right way.

 

[Stacyhs]

You say tomato, I say tomato.

No, there's a distinction. Psychopaths are born; sociopaths are made.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Ah, but this isn't about the rioters, it is about, 'Did Trump incite them?' ....

It's also about all the actions Trump took denying he lost the election to this day. It's also about what Trump didn't do during and shortly after the riot. And it's also about the danger Trump poses in the future.

'm not sure they will bring up Trump's part leaving the Capitol unprepared. That probably won't come out until a wider investigation which I believe will still happen.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Add some more empty seats when it comes voting time and this could go the right way.

Too bad Shumer can't tell the Senators who didn't come to the hearing that they can't vote.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Not sure I agree with the line that the rioters had no control over their own actions. We are each of us responsible for what we do. No person should be able to incite you to commit a crime or something that is obviously wrong.

Are you claiming that incitement should be legal? That leaders have no legal or moral responsibility for what their followers do at their direction?

 

[dasmiller]

I also hope that in closing arguments they call the "unconstitutional" out for the cowardice it is to use as an excuse.

I hope they'll make it clear that
a) it is constitutional, and
b) "unconstitutional" is not one of the options. The options are "guilty" and "not guilty." (or something like that)

 

[Vixen]

No, there's a distinction. Psychopaths are born; sociopaths are made.

You have a degree is psychology, too? Snap!

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I hope in closing I hope they point out how courageous the Georgia governor and sec of state were, how courageous Officer Goodman was and then admonish them that it will be hard to be courageous when their state GOP Party is attacking them if they vote to convict.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

You have a degree is psychology, too? Snap!

You could look it up, that doesn't take a degree. (I don't know the answer except psychopaths do seem to be identifiable in childhood.) I do believe Trump has been labeled a sociopath by his niece who does have the qualifying degree.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I hope they'll make it clear that
a) it is constitutional, and
b) "unconstitutional" is not one of the options. The options are "guilty" and "not guilty." (or something like that)

Good point. I hope they point that out as well.

 

[pgwenthold]

The fact the rioters are individually responsible, (they are and they are being held accountable), doesn't mean Trump isn't responsible for his actions.

Yep. And we have precident.

Charlie Manson was held responsible for the murder of Sharon Tate despite the fact he was nowhere near the scene of the crime.

The women were responsible for what they did, and they were held accountable. But so was Charlie.

(the analogy using the responsibility of the cult leader is not unintentional)

 

[pgwenthold]

Too bad Shumer can't tell the Senators who didn't come to the hearing that they can't vote.

So much for the "the senate acts as the jury in the impeachment trial."

No jurist would be allowed to participate in the verdict if they skipped part of the trial.

 

[Stacyhs]

You have a degree is psychology, too? Snap!

No, but those who do, support this view:

Psychology researchers generally believe that psychopaths tends to be born — it’s likely a genetic predisposition — while sociopaths tend to be made by their environment.

https://mha-em.org/im-looking-for/m...base/conditions/127-psychopathy-vs-sociopathy

From a diagnostic standpoint, the etiology or cause of psychopathy is different from that of sociopathy. I contend that psychopathy is the result of “nature” (genetics), while sociopathy is the result of “nurture” (environment). Psychopathy is related to a physiological defect that results in the underdevelopment of the part of the brain responsible for impulse control and emotions (1).
Sociopathy, on the other hand, is more likely the product of childhood trauma and physical or emotional abuse. Because sociopathy appears to be learned rather than innate, sociopaths are capable of empathy in certain circumstances, and with certain individuals, but not others.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...ifferences-between-psychopaths-and-sociopaths

Although both biological and environmental factors play a role in the development of psychopathy and sociopathy, it is generally agreed that psychopathy is chiefly a genetic or inherited condition, notably related to the underdevelopment of parts of the brain responsible for emotional regulation and impulse control. The most-important causes of sociopathy, in contrast, lie in physical or emotional abuse or severe trauma experienced during childhood. To put the matter simplistically, psychopaths are born, and sociopaths are made.

https://www.britannica.com/story/wh...opath-and-how-do-both-differ-from-narcissists

 

[Stacyhs]

You could look it up, that doesn't take a degree. (I don't know the answer except psychopaths do seem to be identifiable in childhood.) I do believe Trump has been labeled a sociopath by his niece who does have the qualifying degree.

Yes, she could, yes, he has, and yes, she does.

 

[Crossbow]

You could look it up, that doesn't take a degree. (I don't know the answer except psychopaths do seem to be identifiable in childhood.) I do believe Trump has been labeled a sociopath by his niece who does have the qualifying degree.

As for me, I really do not care if Trump is correctly labeled as a psychopath,

And I do not care if Trump is correctly labeled as a sociopath,

And I do not care if Trump is correctly labeled as both a psychopath and as a sociopath.

The only thing that really matters to me is that Trump is criminal who should have never become the president and that POS Trump should spend the rest of his miserable life in jail.

 

[Crossbow]

You misread my post. "They" are the GOP members who are telling "their Dem colleagues" that they wanted to vote guilty or for the impeachment, etc but are afraid of the Trumpers who they claim have threatened their families, etc. I highlighted the part of your post which was the actual point of my post.

You are quite right.

My mistake! Sorry about that.

Please allow me to withdraw my comments.

Thanks much.

 

[Stacyhs]

You are quite right.

My mistake! Sorry about that.

Please allow me to withdraw my comments.

Thanks much.

I will call off the hounds.

 

[Vixen]

Are you claiming that incitement should be legal? That leaders have no legal or moral responsibility for what their followers do at their direction?

Incitement to riot is illegal. What's being tested here is, 'Did Trump Incite the Insurrection 6 Jan 2021'?

Now, there has been example after example of Trump failing to distance himself from previous violence. For example, at Michigan million MAGA riot, Trump wrote next day of his sympathies for these blatant criminal thugs.

This has been Trump's M.O. for a long time. How has he got away with for such a long time? It is astonishing to me that for a very long time Trump has revelled in far right violence to the extent of reckless - even dangerous - negligence.

The other thing is that his supporters surely knew very well that there was no genuine basis to believe there was election fraud; that was just a pretext for wanton lawlessness. Why wasn't Trump's collar felt by the FBI for his corrupt attempts to get State Governors to rig the vote (cf Raffensperger). OK, so he's being investigated now, but how did he and his supporters get away with this openly anarchistic and criminal behaviour for so long? America, look to yourselves.

Of course, Trump incited the insurrection. His supporters were willing criminals, not gullible innocents. The Washington Post pointed out his myriad lies about the election being rigged. How does he get away with such corruption (over and beyond genuine enquiry) for such lengthy period? The USA needs to take away the president's right to be above the law.

 

[Stacyhs]

As for me, I really do not care if Trump is correctly labeled as a psychopath,

And I do not care if Trump is correctly labeled as a sociopath,

And I do not care if Trump is correctly labeled as both a psychopath and as a sociopath.

The only thing that really matters to me is that Trump is criminal who should have never become the president and that POS Trump should spend the rest of his miserable life in jail.

No problem. We've correctly established that he's a sociopath so that's settled.

We can't change the fact that Trump became president, but the GOP senators can prevent him from ever becoming president again. Sadly, I fear they don't have the patriotism or the courage to do so. All we can reasonably hope for is that he will be convicted on some criminal charges, either tax or election fraud related.