Cont: [ED] Discussion: Trans Women are not Women (Part 5)

[Collin237]

Not really. It is a penis or object into a 'sexual' body orifice without consent.
You choose the sex and body part and it qualifies if it fits.

As a matter of course, it is almost always a man as perpetrator and female as victim, but can technically be any combo.

There are plenty of non-consensual acts that don't involve putting things into other things.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Unless it's been fact-checked from multiple sources with a fine tooth comb, an online article about sexual assault is inherently unreliable. Please stop link-listing me. I'm not buying it. Period.

So... it's "fake news"?

Honestly, this really seems like some "la la la I can't hear you I'm not gonna look you can't make me" kind of stuff.

And speaking as a female of the human species, I'm a bit taken aback by your position that reports about sexual assaults against females are "inherently unreliable". It echoes the default position of "women overreact" and "she shouldn't have worn that short skirt" and "she really wanted it she just regrets it now" and "it's no big deal all I did was grab her by the pussy" and "women are just liars trying to get some guy in trouble because she got scorned".

 

[Collin237]

He asked you for a practical execution of fair 'gender in sports' policy, enacted by public servants for a publicly funded education system for children.

I already said, earlier, that I support private stalls and hormone therapy. He didn't like that answer.

Please tell me what crap book from 50 years ago you are reading right now so I can tell you to put it down.

The only thing I have from 50 years ago (or actually 49) is my own brain.

 

[Sherkeu]

There are plenty of non-consensual acts that don't involve putting things into other things.

Sure are. That is criminal...but not rape.

 

[Emily's Cat]

I've had enough of these baseless bigoted screeds.

Your outright refusal to evaluate the sources provided, and dismissing them out of hand because you don't like what they say does not make them either baseless or bigoted.

But here... reported by MULTIPLE news sources...

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/oct/11/transgender-prisoner-who-sexually-assaulted-inmates-jailed-for-life
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-leeds-45825838
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/karen-white-transgender-prisoner-jailed-life-sexual-assault-rape-a8579146.html
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/10/11/transgender-prisoner-born-male-sexually-assaulted-female-inmates/

Also - fact-checked by snopes
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/male-rapist-transfer-womens-jail/

There. I've done your research for you on one case. I've provided links to a collection of other cases, each of which also has links to the original news stories. At this point, you can do your own research... or you can put your hands over your ears and decide that the entire news industry is transphobic. Your choice.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Peak TERF right now!

I really do find it funny that despite holding the same views... you've now jumped right on board with calling me and other women "TERFs".

Funny... but sadly unsurprising.

 

[Emily's Cat]

I wondered about this too...and I did not have this assumption at the start of this debate. But to claim 100% woman and not have these shared concerns of most other women is a big disconnect.

I used to think I was more 'male brained'...you know not very emotional, more science oriented, pragmatic, don't like shopping, primping, or talking recipes and diaper brands, etc ugh!.... But I get reminded in here that there are some fundamentals of my female "valid lived experience" that some men are getting very very wrong. It's frankly a bit insulting.

I've long ago decided that gender roles and gendered behavioral expectations are absolute ********. My failure to conform to rigid and confining constructs of "proper womanliness" isn't my problem, nor does it make me any less of a woman. There are elements of the actual experience of females - which includes both biological realities and social constraints - that males simply do NOT share and have NOT experienced. I get profoundly tired of being told that the lived experiences of females are somehow "invalid" when compared to the self-perception of a small handful of males who believe themselves to be "women".

 

[Emily's Cat]

100% of the toxicity on this thread has been from the anti trans rights side.

What do you consider to be "anti trans"? Can you elaborate on that, please?

 

[Emily's Cat]

Only if you assume that when it's coming from the other side, it's not toxicity, it's speaking truth to power, or punching up, or punching nazis*, or whatever.

Toxicity doth never prosper, for if it prosper, none dare call it toxic.

Yep. Punching up at the evil oppressive females who've been keeping males down for so, so long...

 

[Emily's Cat]

I don't read wild walls of fearmongering, such as the Bible or this thread.

So... you're making a moral declaration based on a complete lack of real information? And you're proud of yourself for having done so?

 

[Emily's Cat]

Unless it's been fact-checked from multiple sources with a fine tooth comb, an online article is inherently unreliable.

Well... only if it's about the sexual assault of women, really. Anything else is fine

 

[Emily's Cat]

Cis women raping other cis women. Nobody knows how often it happens, because all the reports are bought up by spam-porn.

That... I don't even...

"Well, cis-women probably rape other cis-women, but you know, we can't verify it because it ends up being porn" I just... Wow.

I wonder how much of this anti trans stuff is just women not wanting to admit the possibility.

Do some goddamned ******* research about the issue then! Don't come in here with your deeply entrenched beliefs and then go on to insinuate that women are liars and it's not true and refuse to ******* read the actual information about it just so you don't have to face up to your assumptions being terrible!

Your entire presence in this thread has pretty much been "I don't like what you said, so I think you made it up". It's childish and completely irrational, as well as being insulting.

 

[Collin237]

So... it's "fake news"?

Honestly, this really seems like some "la la la I can't hear you I'm not gonna look you can't make me" kind of stuff.

And speaking as a female of the human species, I'm a bit taken aback by your position that reports about sexual assaults against females are "inherently unreliable". It echoes the default position of "women overreact" and "she shouldn't have worn that short skirt" and "she really wanted it she just regrets it now" and "it's no big deal all I did was grab her by the pussy" and "women are just liars trying to get some guy in trouble because she got scorned".

I will not be manipulated into reading a series of links leading to a peak. And I will not pander to ad misericordiam arguments.

 

[Emily's Cat]

This is an interesting idea. If it's true, I'd like to learn more about it. Can you link me to some of the sources you found helpful?

I believe Pornhub no longer allows that sort of thing.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Thou dost protest.

And thou clearly doth not know any women.

 

[Sherkeu]

I really do find it funny that despite holding the same views... you've now jumped right on board with calling me and other women "TERFs".

Funny... but sadly unsurprising.

I think at this point that Collin must be 2 or 3 different people. Just repeat any question from 12 hours ago and you'll get a different answer.
It will totally work, because none of them read the thread.

(apologies to Butter if my thorough scientific analysis sounds like snark)

 

[Emily's Cat]

If she's willing to tell me she's transgender, then I'd assume she'd understand if I told her politely that sex is off, but we can spend the date doing anything else.

A whole lot of transwomen would consider your view to be transphobic and bigoted.

 

[Meadmaker]

I already said, earlier, that I support private stalls and hormone therapy. He didn't like that answer.

Actually, I specifically excluded those answers. Private stalls are impossible and hormone therapy was decided against by parties unknown, possibly including the transgirl.

I was wondering if you would actually address a real world issue instead of exploring theoretical ideals or philosophical issues. Apparently not. I guess it must be a post-structuralist thing.

ETA: In case anyone is interested, the specific case I was referring to was the one from Palatine, Illinois. The original situation is 3-4 years old. The most recent update, involving the second transgirl, was in November 2019. Google "transgender Palatine" and you'll get lots of information. However, substantially similar cases have occurred all over the country in recent years.

 

[Emily's Cat]

...so I know the general case, but I'm trying to figure out how you would handle a specific instance, so I'll just describe the news story...

I'd like to see the answer to the robotics team overnight question. Then, after Collin provides his perspective, we can give him the link to our discussion of it.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Many years ago, I read an article in a science magazine, that said some molecules in the air, apparently of industrial origin, might have an effect similar to sexual hormones, but nobody had any idea what it might eventually cause. I think the appearance of trans people nowadays might be a result of those molecules. Interestingly enough, I've almost never heard about it since. Apparently the industries that might be responsible for those molecules are lobbying to keep it quiet.

Trans women are not choosing to invade your space. They've been put in your space by environmental malpractice that's almost certainly the result of cis men's irresponsibility. Those industries have a vested interest in preventing you from joining with them in solidarity.

Yeah, okay... see... THIS is Conspiracy Theory. This right here.