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Cont: [ED] Discussion: Trans Women are not Women (Part 5)

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Rolfe said:
I think that's right. Some AGP men really are dysphoric and it's not fair to say they're not "true trans" while at the same time accepting extremely feminine gay men who like to act out femininity as such. There are plenty AGP men who never cross-dress out of their own home and haven't the slightest intention of transitioning, too.

It seems more as if there is a toxic combination of AGP and narcissism which isn't a terribly uncommon mix, and these guys become super-obnoxious and entitled. They're also extremely high-profile and vocal and often gravitate to be the leaders of the TRA movements. I suspect also that exposure to these guys can suck other less extreme personalities into their orbit.

These guys are a fairly small subset of everyone who identifies as a transwoman but they're vocal and active and they are the ones driving the movement and influencing the authorities, so they're trouble. And while they're in the driving seat and it's their extreme misogyny (apparently rooted in jealousy, as they despise the women they want to be but never can be) that is dictating policy, I want the entire boiling of them shut out from all women's spaces, lock the door, set the bolts and get the boiling oil ready.
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:thumbsup: Well put. Here in the US we need more (non-Republican) voices speaking out.
 
Collin237 said:
100% of the toxicity on this thread has been from the anti trans rights side.
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Only if you assume that when it's coming from the other side, it's not toxicity, it's speaking truth to power, or punching up, or punching nazis*, or whatever.

Toxicity doth never prosper, for if it prosper, none dare call it toxic.
 
Collin237 said:
100% of the toxicity on this thread has been from the anti trans rights side.
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Quite so. One trans-exclusionary poster even went so far as to propose "separate housing for trans people" when it comes to prisons, rape shelters, and domestic violence refuges.
 
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d4m10n said:
Quite so. One trans-exclusionary poster even went so far as to propose "separate housing for trans people" when it comes to prisons, rape shelters, and domestic violence refuges.
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After all you've posted, now you're criticizing me for just giving an answer in a list of questions? Which I changed my mind about soon afterward?
 
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Collin237 said:
After all you've posted, now you're criticizing me for just giving an answer in a list of questions?
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Nah, I'm just taking the piss. Your initial take seemed reasonable, especially in the context of a large national prison system.
 
Rolfe said:
I think that's right. Some AGP men really are dysphoric and it's not fair to say they're not "true trans" while at the same time accepting extremely feminine gay men who like to act out femininity as such. There are plenty AGP men who never cross-dress out of their own home and haven't the slightest intention of transitioning, too.

It seems more as if there is a toxic combination of AGP and narcissism which isn't a terribly uncommon mix, and these guys become super-obnoxious and entitled. They're also extremely high-profile and vocal and often gravitate to be the leaders of the TRA movements. I suspect also that exposure to these guys can suck other less extreme personalities into their orbit.

These guys are a fairly small subset of everyone who identifies as a transwoman but they're vocal and active and they are the ones driving the movement and influencing the authorities, so they're trouble. And while they're in the driving seat and it's their extreme misogyny (apparently rooted in jealousy, as they despise the women they want to be but never can be) that is dictating policy, I want the entire boiling of them shut out from all women's spaces, lock the door, set the bolts and get the boiling oil ready.
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Fortunately, your wish was prevented when Trump lost reelection.
 
Collin237 said:
I don't read wild walls of fearmongering, such as the Bible or this thread.
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The Bible is just a collection. There are some good things in it and some not-so-good- depending on the version and interpretation. Most of us have read it cover-to-cover, are pretty familiar with it, and had some good debates about 15 years ago. We are a bit over it now.

Also, most of us have read this thread.
Since this is the thread you are IN RIGHT NOW, and taking time to respond to..... maybe, read it?

We go in circles a few times so you need only read this current volume and maybe some of what started it. Won't take too long. :)
 
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d4m10n said:
Nah, I'm just taking the piss. Your initial take seemed reasonable, especially in the context of a large national prison system.
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Yes. The fact that the U.S. prison population is large enough that a separate space for less than 1% of people would even be conceivable -- is a whole other pile. :D
 
Collin237 said:
Emily, please read this article. It changes everything.
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Nope, it changes nothing. There are people on the far fringes.

Unfortunately for your "arguments" causing a little emotional harm isn't in the same universe as multiple rapes undertaken while pretending to be trans: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ho-sexually-assaulted-inmates-jailed-for-life

Emily's Cat said:
How much rape and sexual assault do you think females should be required to experience in order to allow male-bodied transwomen the right to be housed with females?
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As much as it takes until you STFU!

Collin237 said:
Unless it's been fact-checked from multiple sources with a fine tooth comb, an online article about sexual assault is inherently unreliable. Please stop link-listing me. I'm not buying it. Period.
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Says the person who posted an unverified link...
 
Sherkeu said:
To be fair, for a competitive high-achieving athlete whose life has centered around that sport, giving that up might more difficult than waiting. It's also a BIG part of their identity. The WNBA player doesnt have all that far to go to seem manly. Maybe just losing the breasts is enough.
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I think it's a lot easier for FtM to partially transition or transition socially as opposed to medically than it is for MtF. Typically male hairstyles and clothing are not taboo (or even out of the norm) for women. No one's going to look twice. For that matter, if they go into men's spaces they won't catch a lot of crap either.

So yeah, FtM can fairly effectively transition without medical intervention.

If MtF tries to transition without hormones...it's not quite the same half-measure.
 
Emily's Cat said:
Um... okay... I'm going to point out something I think is incredibly, painfully obvious, and you can react however you feel is appropriate.
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Cis women raping other cis women. Nobody knows how often it happens, because all the reports are bought up by spam-porn.

I wonder how much of this anti trans stuff is just women not wanting to admit the possibility.
 
Collin237 said:
Cis women raping other cis women. Nobody knows how often it happens, because all the reports are bought up by spam-porn.
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This is an interesting idea. If it's true, I'd like to learn more about it. Can you link me to some of the sources you found helpful?

I wonder how much of this anti trans stuff is just women not wanting to admit the possibility.
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This right here is pretty toxic, though.
 
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