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Cancel culture IRL

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There are lots of things I don't know that I can nevertheless regard as provisionally true. All of science, for example.

Do I think a superstar Democratic data scientist who was no doubt regarded as a high value employee got fired without warning for posting on twitter too much? No.

And there you go just making more BS up. How do you know he was regarded as a high value employee? Did his boss say anything to that effect? Or how do you know?

Oh, right, you just make it up, for no other reason than it supporting your BS made up narrative. Whatever you need for your nonsense narrative, you just MAKE UP.

Reach for the stars, Hans.

Stop making your own BS up, silly.
 
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And there you go just making more BS up. How do you know he was regarded as a high value employee?
Because he's a superstar Democratic data scientist. He's credited with creating the platform that got Obama elected. He also knows what he's talking about, and has made a name for himself among his fellow professionals in his field.

But sure, they probably just fired him for tweeting too much.

Stop making your own BS up, silly.
This is just so desperate.
 
Because he's a superstar Democratic data scientist. He's credited with creating the platform that got Obama elected. He also knows what he's talking about, and has made a name for himself among his fellow professionals in his field.

Again, what do you base any of that on?

I mean, really? HE alone created that platform? Because last I heard the company founder also worked on it. So, yeah, he's one guy who worked on a piece of software.

And it's THE piece of software that got Obama elected? Really? What do you base that on?

Oh right, you're still just making up whatever BS you think you need :p
 
Also, the "cancel" aspect referred to a comedy tour Cosby was doing after being charged in court, where people protested demanding that his tour dates be canceled.

I was specifically drawing the parallel with action being taken due to a twitter mob highlighting unacceptable behaviour. That seems to be the working definition of "cancel culture".
 
And is this the point in the thread where it's worth pointing out again that people generally seem to be arguing about strengthening employment laws, rather than about so-called "cancel culture"?
 
TBH, I think that point's been reached several pages back. I seem to remember Darat saying something to that effect before.

TBH, though, I don't think that that's what many people actually ask for. Asking for more employee rights is not a common agenda at least for the right side of the political spectrum, in any case. But anyway, I really do get the impression that it keeps getting re-centered around just 'the mob should stop talking about it, and continue doing business as usual even if they stop liking a company' every time it starts drifting to the logical employee rights conclusion.
 
Not while on the clock, and not for hours in a row. His account on Twitter in fact shows him hardly having any time to do anything else while awake, judging by the amount of posts. So, yes, he would have to be hired as an influencer or such, for that to count as just doing what he was hired to do.

Not saying it's not also what people do, even software engineers, but it IS a firing offense. If you spend your day #### posting instead of writing software, frankly you're taking your chances. If someone wants to find an excuse to fire you, whether personally or just to reduce personnel in general, that Twitter account complete with timestamps is just what they need. In fact, it's like Santa came early. In his pants.

Of course, he could be posting on the weekend or his day off.
 
Cancel culture is one that can be seen as widely democratic

What's seen as "democratic" in America is often conflated with what's "popular." In reality, small-but-intensely-motivated groups tend to triumph. What does general polling say about "cancel culture"? As far as I know, people are inclined to find it problematic.

And: "Twenty-seven percent of voters said cancel culture had a somewhat positive or very positive impact on society, but almost half (49%) said it had a somewhat negative or very negative impact." - Politico

Rashness is something that social media probably does promote. It's a social space that celebrates first drafts. This dead format is preferable, by virtue of only being a complete waste of time.

Robert Wright complains that social media companies facilitate tribalism and encourage obnoxious behavior because those things promote engagement. He suggests one fix could be that replies are not instantly sent. A response is subjected to a "cooling off" period for several minutes, and then a pop-up asks, "Are you sure you want to say this?" He recognizes the all-knowing invisible hand has determined this is a terrible idea because it likely hurts profits.
 
Of course, he could be posting on the weekend or his day off.

1. The bigger point there was shooting down the claim that boo-hoo, the mean mob got him fired 'for just doing the job he was hired to do'. No, that narrative is false. Unless his job description was PR spokesperson or influencer or a synonym thereof, then no, that wasn't the job he was hired to do. Whether it's on his free time or not, it's still not the job he was hired to do.


2. That's why I mentioned what day of the week those posts were on and at what hours. The posts that the article making him sound like a martyr of the democrats was specifically mentioning posts on Thursday and Friday. But generally, judging by his twitter account, the guy was pretty much having the summer off, if those are all on his days off.

Now would you necessarily get fired for that? Usually not. If you fired everyone who loafs around in a computer job, you'd pretty much have to fire everyone.

But if you make it stick out by causing a crap-storm on the clock, all I'm saying is, you may have just given HR just the right water-tight reason to fire you at zero risk of getting get sued over it.


3. AAANYWAY, my point isn't that I know it was over that, but basically that we don't know. We really have zero information about what happened there.

He COULD have been the super-perfect star employee that mumblethrax assumes he was, or he could have been the ass hole they were just itching to fire anyway, or (as usually when humans are involved) anywhere in between. It can even be that they were just looking to downsize anyway (a surveys and focus groups company probably struggled more than many others during Corona) and he just gave them an excuse to be the next to go. Or anything else. We don't know what other factors, if any, were factored in that decision.

But that's just it: we don't know, means we don't know. It doesn't mean one gets to fill in the blanks with whatever fanfiction makes for the sobbiest 'cancel culture' story, and present it as irrefutable example of it.
 
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Again, what do you base any of that on?

I mean, really? HE alone created that platform? Because last I heard the company founder also worked on it. So, yeah, he's one guy who worked on a piece of software.

And it's THE piece of software that got Obama elected? Really? What do you base that on? Oh right, you're still just making up whatever BS you think you need :p

Flipped the election machines’ votes to Obama.... :boxedin:
 
:rolleyes: It's not *new*. But it is detrimental. ...snip...

At least you’ve now accepted that.

Blacklisting, witch-burning etc. are detrimental. They're not beneficial to society. Therefore we should not gloss over this behavior and pretend like it's okay just because it's not *new*.
...snip....

And now you go onto to create more strawman.
 
What's seen as "democratic" in America is often conflated with what's "popular." In reality, small-but-intensely-motivated groups tend to triumph. What does general polling say about "cancel culture"? As far as I know, people are inclined to find it problematic.

And: "Twenty-seven percent of voters said cancel culture had a somewhat positive or very positive impact on society, but almost half (49%) said it had a somewhat negative or very negative impact." - Politico
...snip...

I think that is more because of the success the right in USA politics has in creating a new strawman/boogeyman, “cancel culture” as a replacement for “political correctness” that has lost its effectiveness these days.

You can see the influence even in this thread, people acting as if “cancel culture” is something new, something that only their opponents use.
 
2. That's why I mentioned what day of the week those posts were on and at what hours. .

Means nothing.

In my 50+ years in the workforce, I have had jobs that run five days on - two days off, or four days on - three days off, all starting and finishing on varying days of the week, with weekends on and weekdays off. I've had night shifts, split shifts, rotation shifts, graveyard shifts and 12 on 24 off.

Whatever other things you might be claiming I don't really care about. I'm just pulling you up for making an unsupported claim. You cannot reasonably conclude that a person posting at 3pm on a Thursday is posting while at work unless you KNOW what that person's work hours and arrangements are.
 
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@Darat
TBH, after reading through the actual poll, I must confess that I find it flawed AF. In fact it could serve as a case study on how to get the result you want to get, rather than actually find anything out.

The problems that polls generally have, and that professional polling companies fight hard to minimize the impact of, are all derived basically from the fact that people have a lifetime of experience with trying to be agreeable. It's something that's almost reflex, rather than something you can just turn on or off, just because someone said it's an anonymous poll. Anyway, the most important ones include:

1. People tend to tell you what they think you want to hear. If your language or use of loaded terms even vaguely suggest that you might agree or disagree with a position, they tend to agree or disagree with it too.

2. People tend to answer "yes" more than "no". Hence radomizing the phrasing of the question so half the people get asked the negative.

3. People tend to pick the top option more than the bottom one. Hence randomizing the choicing.

Added to that, anthropology studies have shown since decades ago that, all else being equal:

4. people will tend to pick whatever choice makes them sound like better people, or more acceptable in their community or culture. This can go to such extremes like one community telling you that yeah, they work the fields together, and build barns together, and all, even if the last time it happened was like before they were born. Or one tribe declaring themselves to be all hunters and warriors, like their culture says a proper man should be, even after generation of just doing agriculture, and only a tiny minority even owning a weapon any more, that could be used for either hunting or warfare.


Well, what's the problem with this one? (Their own source provided: https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000173-7326-d36e-abff-7ffe72dc0000 ) Well, mostly that it goes out of its way to trip 1 and 4, by its use of loaded words.

No matter how it tries to claim that it used a neutral definition (spoiler: no they didn't) just the fact that it repeatedly uses the term "cancel culture" at a time when it's THE buzzword being decried, is a MAJOR red flag. It's like asking someone "are you a SJW?" or "are you into political correctness" on a poll, back in the heyday of those being THE loaded buzzword. Yeah, no matter what 'neutral' definition you tack on to it, just using the buzzword already gives a hint of whether you find that good or bad.

But even their definition is not as neutral as they claim in the article. In the article they only mention the definition being "the practice of withdrawing support for (or canceling) public figures and companies after they have done or said something considered objectionable or offensive." Well, that already already mentioned "cancelling" a second time, in case you didn't catch it the first time in their use of "cancel culture" (nudge nudge, wink wink.) But that's actually the least of problems.

The bigger problem is that they're basically lying by omission already: that's only the first half of what the actual question was telling people. In the actual text (see the link I provided), it goes on to say that it's a form of group shaming. (And then calls it "cancel culture" again, maybe the third time you get the hint;))

That's already telling people the kind of answer that would be acceptable.

And then proceeds to just call it "cancel culture" some more in the next questions.


So, anyway, if they actually wanted to phrase it neutrally, why not just do just that: go neutral. Ask something more like, say, "do you think it's ok to withdraw support from a company or person if you find their actions objectionable?" I would bet real money that the results would be quite different, if that were the case.
 
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Means nothing.

In my 50+ years in the workforce, I have had jobs that run five days on - two days off, or four days on - three days off, all starting and finishing on varying days of the week, with weekends on and weekdays off. I've had night shifts, split shifts, rotation shifts, graveyard shifts and 12 on 24 off.

I'm more like saying that they cover pretty much all hours and way too many days to be all days off. It's not just 3PM on ONE Thursday and Friday.

Also, we're talking software developer, not paramedic or even network admin. The number of software development jobs that actually require 12 on 24 off shift is insignificant, and it's definitely not when you're writing some data mining software for voter polls. You might get that kind of shift when you're doing third level support for industrial equipment, but data mining some polls? It's not the kind of stuff where you're call, you know?

Whatever other things you might be claiming I don't really care about. I'm just pulling you up for making an unsupported claim. You cannot reasonably conclude that a person posting at 3pm on a Thursday is posting while at work unless you KNOW what that person's work hours and arrangements are.

Except it's not even just the other claims you're ignoring, without even knowing if they're relevant to this one. You're also ignoring what I said on THIS topic, which was exactly that we don't know what happened there. So anyone trying to claim to know exactly what it was for, THE one single cause of it, is just full of it.

So, you're pulling me up for... YOUR not bothering to read and comprehend before jumping to post an answer? :p
 
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ahhhh, there it is!

The most important issue to “Republican” voters is CANCEL CULTURE.

So if the GOP abandons Marjorie Taylor Greene and allows her to be cancelled from CONGRESS.

The Republican Party will be officially over as far as I’m concerned.

https://twitter.com/ACTBrigitte/status/1356751302890557441

There's a legal aphorism that goes: "If you have the facts on your side, pound the facts. If you have the law on your side, pound the law. If you have neither on your side, pound the table."

"Cancel culture" is just pounding the table, and it's employed whenever someone has rightly earned the public ire for their bad behavior. When you have someone like Greene saying truly indefensible, dangerous claptrap, there's nothing left to do but try to put critics on their back heels by screeching about "cancel culture".

Our InfoWars congresswoman should be cancelled. She's a dangerous crank spouting lies and pouring gas directly onto the fires of political violence.
 
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Another instructive example of the true purpose of "cancel culture" discourse comes from the My Pillow guy's interview on Newsmax.

The Newsmax anchors try to tee up a conversation about Lindell getting banned from Twitter, but it is immediately derailed when Lindell starts talking about his Dominion machine election conspiracy. Not wanting to get sued by Dominion in what is looking to be a slam-dunk defamation case against Lindell, the anchors talk over him and do some impressive legal ass-covering.

https://twitter.com/JasonSCampbell/status/1356719881564086272

It's interesting to see what Newsmax was trying to accomplish here, though stymied by Lindell's insistence on doubling down on libel. They wanted to have a conversation with a victim of cancel culture, but had absolutely no interest in actually discussing the substance of the claims that caused the cancellation.

That's what the tactic of complaining about cancel culture is about. It's an evasion to remove focus on the actual, substantive criticism of a bad behavior and an attempt to muddy the issue with tedious meta-discourse.

Rather than discussing whether or not Lindell is an unhinged conspiracy theorist about to get sued into the poor house for attempting to provide ideological cover to overturn an election loss, the right wing wants to whing about "cancel culture" or the censorious elites.

It's a dodge. It's a pointless red herring meant to distract from substantive criticism and allow crackpots and extremists to escape having to back up their claims.
 
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We're having the exact same meta-conversation yet again.

"Waaaah! Waaaaah! Whine! Whine! Why is okay for the other side to do this but not for my side to do it?"

Because your side is factually wrong.

There is no deep state and what happened on January 6 was an attempted coup that Trump is responsible for. You have no place in polite, openly welcoming society, to say nothing of government, if you disagree.

Rape is bad. Black people are equal. Vaccines work. Climate change is real and human caused. We went to the Moon. The Earth is round. The most basic idea of "Facts" as a concept exist. When you disagree with these facts LIFE SHOULD BE HARDER FOR YOU.

About half the discussions on this board right now are just different versions of this weird post-fact "I don't understand why is life harder for me because I'm intentionally wrong about things? That's just so unfair!" meta-discussion.
 
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We're having the exact same meta-conversation yet again.

"Waaaah! Waaaaah! Whine! Whine! Why is okay for the other side to do this but not for my side to do it?"

Because your side is factually wrong.

There is no deep state and what happened on January 6 was an attempted coup that Trump is responsible for. You have no place in polite, openly welcoming society, to say nothing of government, if you disagree.

Rape is bad. Black people are equal. Vaccines work. Climate change is real and human caused. We went to the Moon. The Earth is round. The most basic idea of "Facts" as a concept exist. When you disagree with these facts LIFE SHOULD BE HARDER FOR YOU.

About half the discussions on this board right now are just different versions of this weird post-fact "I don't understand why is life harder for me because I'm intentionally wrong about things? That's just so unfair!" meta-discussion.

Counterpoint:

People have, in the past, used bad judgement. Therefore the very concept of judgement or criticism is wicked.

I am very smart
 
Counterpoint:

People have, in the past, used bad judgement. Therefore the very concept of judgement or criticism is wicked.

I am very smart

Pretty much.

As in how I know within a metaphysical certainty that some Wrongie (as I have decided I will now call them) is going to try to "gotcha" me by pointing out some discussion I'm in where I'm disagreeing with somebody else and try to prove that means something.

People can accept a basic bedrock of reality, a basic agreement that "facts are a thing that exist" and just piss simple things like "cause and effect is a thing that exists and the universe doesn't run on random dream logic" and "Being factually wrong is not just a new, unique way of being right" and still maintain a sweeping vista of honest and open disagreement ranging the miniscule to the grand.

This mythology the Proudly Wrong are trying to manifest that a simple acceptance of facts or any intellectual standards means that everyone has to agree about everything all the time is just insane.
 
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