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Cont: [ED] Discussion: Trans Women are not Women (Part 5)

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Collin237 said:
Peak trans means the moment of being convinced that fake news is real. :mad:

I know the pamphlet is fake because, by using those words, Rolfe admitted it was.
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What? Peak trans is the moment when you are at your most supportive of trans people. Everything after that - well.

I've come across that article before. It's certainly not fake. Perhaps your peak trans moment will come when you realise that it's not fake.
 
Collin237 said:
I'm not the one using tactics here.
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You're taking that the wrong way. Any time you do anything with a goal in mind, you could describe the method used as a tactic. There's nothing inherently bad about the word. By itself, it's value neutral.

Peak trans means the moment of being convinced that fake news is real. :mad:
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Well, no. It's the moment before changing one's mind. What causes that change is unspecified by the term itself. And you're begging the question by assuming it has to be "fake news" and not something real which causes that change. For example, if someone who supported trans rights was assaulted by a trans person, that might make them switch to being anti-trans. There's an argument to be made that such a change wouldn't be justified based on one event, but it wouldn't be "fake news", it would be something quite real.

I know the pamphlet is fake because, by using those words, Rolfe admitted it was.
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That's... not how it works. And I can also tell that you're not going to have a good time here. My sincere advice would be to lurk for a while, watch what other posters do, how they form their arguments. You don't have to abandon your beliefs, but your style here isn't really effective right now.
 
Collin237 said:
Because I'm being ganged up on.
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I'm sorry if you feel ganged up on. It's unintentional. I would guess that it's mostly because you're new and we haven't heard your personal arguments before... so you're much more interesting than rehashing the same back and forth with people we already know well.

But you'll notice that we still respond to other people too :) d4m10n has been taking a beating for his suggested definition of "woman" for the last several pages too.

One thing to consider since you're new here at ISF is the we really, really, really like to debate. Sometimes it gets down into annoying weedy territory, sometimes it gets so abstract it's incomprehensible. But debating and challenging each other is in the core of this site.

If you check out other threads, you'll find people who are in strong agreement on this specific topic being at loggerheads on other topics. If someone is disagreeing with your position and challenging it, that doesn't mean that they dislike you. It just means they disagree with you.

This topic, and a few others, you'll find me in very strong disagreement with Suburban Turkey, for example. But there are other topics where we share very similar views and take the same positions.
 
Collin237 said:
I'm not the one using tactics here. Rolfe said I'm going to reach "peak trans". So I looked up that phrase. This is what it means:

https://medium.com/@SadistHailey/the-terrifying-thought-process-behind-peak-trans-4765ced450c1

Peak trans means the moment of being convinced that fake news is real. :mad:

I know the pamphlet is fake because, by using those words, Rolfe admitted it was.
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No, that's not what it means. Yes, that's what that writer presents it as, but that's not actually what it means.

Peak Trans refers to the point where someone who started out supportive of trans rights gets fed up with the activist narrative and decides that the activist agenda (not transgender people as a whole) is BS.

Nearly every poster in this thread who opposes self-id and the full access of male-bodied people to every female-segregated space has hit that point. At some point, almost all of us were supportive of the very general idea of trans rights (we still are, but we've added some limitations). But we've run across so much embedded misogyny, so much deeply hateful rhetoric, and so much that represents an actual real threat to women's rights and safety that we hit our limit and can no longer support the unquestioned goal of trans rights activists.

As a parallel, accepting this Medium article as the meaning of peak trans is akin to accepting a Men's Rights Activists portrayal of man-hating-feminazis as what feminism is about.
 
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I said it was real, not fake. I suggested that your mind-changing moment might come when you realised that it was real.
 
Collin237 said:
Yes it is. I suppose this "argument" could go on and on.

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2hwqn9

Rolfe said it's fake. Maybe you should take up the argument with her.
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Rolfe did not say it was fake.

+++++++++++++++++++++

As a thought exercise... If you feel that Rolfe has said that it was fake, and you are taking her word for that... are you also going to take Rolfe's word on other posts in this thread? Or are you selectively going to decide that Rolfe is trustworthy and believable when her statements agree with your pre-existing beliefs... and that she is disingenuous and untruthful when her statements disagree?
 
Emily's Cat said:
The question is do you personally perceive him as a woman?
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I don't think that's the same question you asked before, which was clearly about sex rather than gender. To answer both questions, though, I perceive Izzard as a male who appears to be easing into the social role of womanhood in terms of gender presentation. If Izzard asked me for directions at the department store, I'd point to the section where they sell ladies' clothing rather than the part of the store where I shop for myself. If Izzard asked me which way to the loo (in a venue where they are widely spaced apart) I'd probably have to ask which one they personally prefer. If I had to throw an "Excuse me, ma'am/sir," I'd probably go with the former since the lipstick is on point.
 
Emily's Cat said:
:rolleyes: I don't live in total fear. But it IS a reality.

FFS, you're not even the person asking to come into the changing rooms! You're getting offended as a male on behalf of other ******* people! And you present this as if your second-hand discomfort is justification for females not having a right to sex-segregated spaces!
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It is odd isn't it that one of the main arguments for the change is that trans women are "in danger of physical assault" if they go into male spaces whereas female spaces are much safer for them.

But on the other hand, males get mad if it is said that males in female spaces pose a larger risk- because that is unfair, as most of them pose no risk at all. Which is true and all of us females know that already.

The vast majority of humans are not a risk, but some are higher, and in that group nearly all of them are male.

Either females and males have differing safety profiles or the need for trans women to avoid male assault by joining the female spaces is a false belief and males are no real threat to them.

Pick one!!
 
Sherkeu said:
It is odd isn't it that one of the main arguments for the change is that trans women are "in danger of physical assault" if they go into male spaces whereas female spaces are much safer for them.

But on the other hand, males get mad if it is said that males in female spaces pose a larger risk- because that is unfair, as most of them pose no risk at all. Which is true and all of us females know that already.

The vast majority of humans are not a risk, but some are higher, and in that group nearly all of them are male.

Either females and males have differing safety profiles or the need for trans women to avoid male assault by joining the female spaces is a false belief and males are no real threat to them.

Pick one!!
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Exactly. If males are no danger to anyone, then transwomen should be entirely safe in the gents. Problem solved. Well done lads.
 
Collin237 said:
Yes it is. I suppose this "argument" could go on and on.

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2hwqn9

Rolfe said it's fake. Maybe you should take up the argument with her.
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Is the International Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer & Intersex Youth and Student Organisation (IGLYO) also fake? Or did they just post a fake policy pamphlet on their website, under their letterhead?
 
Collin237 said:
If it was real, you wouldn't sit around ten days waiting for me to "realize" it.

https://obamaninjas.com/imgs/pg/130.o1.jpg
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We're hoping you'll actually check out the International Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer & Intersex Youth and Student Organisation (IGLYO) and realize it today.

We're estimating that it may take a week or more, at your current rate, to get there. No worries, though. Take as much time as you need.
 
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