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Split Thread A second impeachment

Rep. Eric Swalwell made an excellent point today that some of the senators that are acting as 'jurors' in the impeachment are also not only witnesses but are also participants in the very act of spreading the lies that led to the storming of the Capitol. Talk about a conflict of interest! There is no way they are ever going to vote guilty. They should be removed from voting but I don't know how that could be done as there is no mechanism n place for that that I am aware of.
 
Which won't mean crap to most of the GOP senators. :mad:

but it is something that might get into some bubbles. And the more evidence that can be brought, the harder it will be for the GOP to be seen to vote to acquit.

Also, it would be good to get a proper investigation into the Ukraine call evidence that McConnell refused to hear.
 
but it is something that might get into some bubbles. And the more evidence that can be brought, the harder it will be for the GOP to be seen to vote to acquit.

Yeah, and those weight loss commercials are telling the truth when they say you'll lose 25 lbs. in a month.

Also, it would be good to get a proper investigation into the Ukraine call evidence that McConnell refused to hear.


Agreed. But that's not going to happen in this impeachment. This is about inciting the Capitol riot. They're not going to "LOOK! SQUIRREL!" by bringing that up. They're going to concentrate on inciting insurrection.
 
I agree with this. I think the evidence is already overwhelming and shouldn't require the extra time. Still, the time allows the Democrats to plan the trial. Unilike before, in this situation, how this trial pays out is entirely in the Democrats hands. There is no short circuiting the trial and eliminating the evidence.

This isn't extra time. This is actually quite fast for an impeachment. The previous impeachments of Trump and Clinton took about 3 weeks from impeachment to trial. This one will be about 4 weeks, but that is in part due to Congress not being in session and a new Congress and administration being established. Those previous impeachments also had months of inquiry before the articles of impeachment were actually passed. This moved very fast past the inquiry stage and is normal for the time to the trial stage.

I do wonder whether they would be better off waiting to see what else comes out, especially on whether he had any involvement in reducing or delaying the National Guard and other security at the Capitol.
 
This isn't extra time. This is actually quite fast for an impeachment. The previous impeachments of Trump and Clinton took about 3 weeks from impeachment to trial. This one will be about 4 weeks, but that is in part due to Congress not being in session and a new Congress and administration being established. Those previous impeachments also had months of inquiry before the articles of impeachment were actually passed. This moved very fast past the inquiry stage and is normal for the time to the trial stage.

I do wonder whether they would be better off waiting to see what else comes out, especially on whether he had any involvement in reducing or delaying the National Guard and other security at the Capitol.

When I say "extra time". I'm saying that Trump's guilt is evident right now to anyone who views this honestly. No one should need to see more than what the nation has experienced since the election.
 
When I say "extra time". I'm saying that Trump's guilt is evident right now to anyone who views this honestly. No one should need to see more than what the nation has experienced since the election.

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I get that they are not viewing this honestly. But that may not be apparent to the public at large even though we think it is.
 
Sen. Hawley has a history of defending militias and racists.
https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/article248663695.html

From the article:

Hawley, an evangelical Christian, has long championed the view that political leaders should be guided by their religious faith and that secularism runs counter to the country’s founding principles.

Now, why doesn't that surprise me? I bet he's real big on the Second Amendment but gets kind of foggy on the First Amendment.

I also had to laugh about his 'I'm not a ladder climbing politician' campaign ad when he was already planning his next move within his first few months in office as the MO AG.

And who does he think he's fooling with his "I wave to everyone" excuse regarding the fist salute to the rioters? What a scumbag.
 
From the article:



Now, why doesn't that surprise me? I bet he's real big on the Second Amendment but gets kind of foggy on the First Amendment.

I also had to laugh about his 'I'm not a ladder climbing politician' campaign ad when he was already planning his next move within his first few months in office as the MO AG.

And who does he think he's fooling with his "I wave to everyone" excuse regarding the fist salute to the rioters? What a scumbag.

Maybe it was a bit like this?

 
The large majority of Biden voters, likely... much as the concern is fairly certainly far more along the lines of Justice, which would likely be the generally preferred option. Impeachment serves a different role, albeit also one of value.

Just to expand on this a little-

Some in the GOP are arguing that you can only impeach and convict a sitting President, on the ground that it's ridiculous, or "moot," to remove a President who is already out of office. This argument rests on two suppositions- that the penalty is the only reason for the process, and that removal is the only penalty.

But if a bank president has embezzled funds from his bank, then resigned after being caught, he can still be prosecuted and convicted for what he did, because it was against the damn law. To me, it's as frankly ridiculous to say that a US President can escape any consequences for having committed a "high crime" when he was in a position to do so just because he's no longer in that position, as to allow the bank president to escape his due penalty for having embezzled when he could just because he no longer can. In either case, the point is the wrong committed, not just the penalty for it. (And, no, the distinction between "legal" and "political" doesn't affect that central point of the analogy)

And, of course, the removal from office isn't the only penalty possible. Article I, Section 3 of the US Constitution, says "Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor." So, even though that prescribed penalty isn't the reason for an impeachment, but a practical effect that follows as a result of the process, it can apply to anyone who can potentially deserve the penalty- whether they presently can is irrelevant.
 
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Like I said in another post if you do something and there is no consequence there is absolutely no reason to not do it again, so it's emboldening the actions at best, letting it serve as a training exercise / trail run at best.'

"Actions have consequences" is a concept we had to remind people exists.
 
Like I said in another post if you do something and there is no consequence there is absolutely no reason to not do it again, so it's emboldening the actions at best, letting it serve as a training exercise / trail run at best.'

"Actions have consequences" is a concept we had to remind people exists.
True enough, but these days I think we also have to remind people what actual consequences are. Nowadays "taking responsibility" for something seems to consist of mouthing a few words and then shifting responsibility for the problem on those who find them insufficient. For some, it seems, the mere burden of accusation is an unbearable consequence, and those who wish for more than that are divisive and vindictive.
 
Like I said in another post if you do something and there is no consequence there is absolutely no reason to not do it again, so it's emboldening the actions at best, letting it serve as a training exercise / trail run at best.'

"Actions have consequences" is a concept we had to remind people exists.

Exactly. And if the consequence is the inability to do it again, that's an entirely proper one to apply to anyone, regardless of whether or not the person it applies to is presently in a position to commit the act. It's true enough that you can't remove from an office someone who isn't presently in it; but "you can only disqualify a person from being President in the future if he is now" is just stupid.
 
I think if Trump is acquitted, that, though it might take a while to die, the death warrant of the GOP will have been signed.
I'm convinced he WILL be acquitted and that it will NOT be the end of the party. I wish I could share your optimism.
Especially that $70 mil. Does anybody really believe tRumP would spend it on his campaign?

Oh, he'll spend it on the campaign. Hiring his toadies, renting ballrooms at Trump hotels at twice the going rate, leasing his airplane to the campaign for him to travel on, etc.
 
My old email address that got all the Trump campaign emails has started getting near-daily emails from Nikki Haley. These seem to be clearly aimed at a 2024 presidential run building on Trump's base.

It struck me that she must be praying every night that Trump is convicted. If she has to face Trump in the primary, Trump will see her as an enemy and she'll lose his base even if she wins the primary. But if Trump can't run, then she's a loyal, attractive woman and Trump will support her.

A lot of other Republicans are probably thinking similar thoughts. If Trump can enter the 2024 Republican primary, it may be very difficult for any Republican to win the general election.
 
Too many of youse guys assume that Donnie Fad **** will be around in 2024, and that he'll have followers. Given the healthy turmoil of politics in a democracy, there's good reason to eschew speculation that far in advance.

I said ESCHEW, not CHEW, goddammit!
 
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Too many of youse guys assume that Donnie Fad **** will be around in 2024, and that he'll have followers. Given the healthy turmoil of politics in a democracy, there's good reason to eschew speculation that far in advance.

Sadly, the last few years (and especially 2020) have badly damaged my ability to maintain that level of optimism.
 
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Pat Leahy will preside over the trial.
If things get rowdy, he can always call on Batman to help restore order....
 

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