Cont: Trump’s Coup - Part 2

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Segnosaur said:
But was Trump really closer to their values than Biden or Clinton is?

Republicans have traditionally been pro-free trade. They have generally been in favor of the use of the American military. Trump appears to be opposed to many of the values that these republicans had previously professed.

As for Taxes... yes, Trump and the republicans cut taxes. But the cuts heavily favored the wealthy. Poor/middle class people didn't really benefit. (And its even worse for many of them after covid-19). If middle/lower class people are sticking with Trump because "they love them some tax cuts", even though those tax cuts aren't helping them, that's also a form of stupidity.

Perhaps having anti-abortion supreme court judges might be a reason to have supported Trump. But then, the majority of Republicans actually want to see Roe v. Wade left in place. So these republicans are voting for a guy who's doing something they don't want.
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Most Republican voters don't understand Republican policy preferences.

We have a large portion of the US public that not only doesn't know what they are talking about with regards to policy differences, but also don't know what they are talking about with many issues of objective reality.

Moreover, there is no way to communicate this to them because the very act of doing that will be defined as condescension, elitism, and be dismissed as coming from 'the fake news media'.

There is little difference between this level of ignorance and malice.
 
Not against politics, but at right angles to it. Trumps followers care not a whit for governance. They care about social power and influence on the street
 
JoeMorgue said:
This is going to be very not easy to put into words.

Obvious caveat; Trump Supporters are not a homogeneous Borg collective they, even on an individual level, don't have one singular, consistent reason for supporting Trump. Caveat entered into the record.

We're making the wrong distinction. It's not between smart and stupid, if such a thing could even really be put into words, it between politics driven politics and politics driven by things that aren't politics.

It's a huge mistake to look at a phenomenon like Trump and go "I don't understand these people's politics."

Trump is not a political entity in the same way Obama, Clinton, the Bushes, or even Reagan was.

This is, largely not completely obviously (again caveat already entered into record, don't @ me) but largely not a political movement. It's a movement against politics. And even that's over-simplifying it.

It's a movement against a bitter, cynical, nihilistic strawman version of politics.
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It is a pure version of tribal identity politics.

'We're right because we're the good ones, and we're good because we're on the right side. Anything we do is good, and everyone on our side is good because it is who we are.'

If they don't identify you as 'us' (Republican) then you're wrong because you're not one of the good guys. This is also why 'RINO' are even more at risk of violence for their betrayal.
 
Meadmaker said:
I suppose that even when I say "Trump supporters", there are a couple of different definitions. There is anyone who voted for Trump. There is anyone who thought Trump was a really good President. Finally, there are people who thought, and may still think, that Donald Trump is the rightfully elected President of the United States and that Joe Biden is a usurper who stole the election.

It's easy to be intelligent and vote for Trump. It's not quite as easy to be intelligent and thing that Trump was actually a good President. It's awfully hard to believe that Trump won the election, but it was stolen. That last category is filled mostly by the low IQ crowd.

ETA: And, with respect to that last category, those who pretend to be in it in order to manipulate the stupid people.
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Read on Twitter: There's a reason they don't call it IQ-Anon.
 
Segnosaur said:
But was Trump really closer to their values than Biden or Clinton is?
se republicans are voting for a guy who's doing something they don't want.
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Their real values not the ones they pretend to hold for the sake of argument. The consolidating of wealth in the worthwhile classes and using white supremacy to maintain power. Once you see the goals as furthering wealth inequality and white supremacy it becomes easy for an intelligent person to favor Trump.

They might be morally bankrupt but that doesn't make them stupid. They know what they want and Trump really was effective at getting that.
 
JoeMorgue said:
This is going to be very not easy to put into words.

Obvious caveat; Trump Supporters are not a homogeneous Borg collective they, even on an individual level, don't have one singular, consistent reason for supporting Trump. Caveat entered into the record....
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People currently support Trump for the same reason some people have always supported Trump: initially they think that he can get them something they couldn't otherwise, and when they have wasted too much time and resources on him they support him out of a sunken-cost fallacy.
 
JoeMorgue said:
This is going to be very not easy to put into words.

Obvious caveat; Trump Supporters are not a homogeneous Borg collective they, even on an individual level, don't have one singular, consistent reason for supporting Trump. Caveat entered into the record.
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Indeed.

But I want to enter my own statement into the record, again.

When I commented that the people who were featured in a video taken in the Senate chamber were stupid, that comment was not based on their political beliefs. It was based on their use of grammar and language and their inability to form coherent thought into words.

They were morons.
 
Dave Rogers said:
Given that you have that experience, what do you think would be a good approach to, for example, getting Trump supporters to accept that the evidence for widespread electoral fraud is somewhere between inadequate and nonexistent?

Dave
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Mass lobotomies?
 
dudalb said:
Petty Borugeoisie?
Long time since I heard that one.
Your hatred for the Middle Class is showing....
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#NotAllMiddleClass

You don't think it's noteworthy that so many of our capitol hill invaders are well-to-do professionals with a lot of lose? Normally you don't expect so many white collar professionals to become violent felons overnight en masse. People that ought to be enjoying their retirement or golfing at country clubs are now looking to spend time in a federal prison.
 
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Mike! said:
I'm thinking a couple few of the Capitol aggressors were wearing Davy Crockett style racoon skin caps. You know, that whole, "Remember the Alamo!" , line of thought kind of thing. It's the only "logical" conclusion I can see.
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"Remember a bunch of udiotic, incompetent slave-owners".
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
#NotAllMiddleClass

You don't think it's noteworthy that so many of our capitol hill invaders are well-to-do professionals with a lot of lose? Normally you don't expect so many white collar professionals to become violent felons overnight en masse. People that ought to be enjoying their retirement or golfing at country clubs are now looking to spend time in a federal prison.
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Ah...

catsmate said:
"Remember a bunch of udiotic, incompetent slave-owners".
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dudalb said:
It's the sheer anaracy that scares me in the New Yorker video.
And those shots of Qanon Shaman in Pence's chair will not help him since he has been portraying himself as just somebody who got caught up in the mob.not as a leader. Sure looked like some sort of a leader in that video.
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In the mass Parler dump there are numerous shots of him screaming, 'Freedom!' He even brags that he just walked out and 'We won!'

Because he is highly articulate and cuts an ultra self-confident figure people seemed drawn to him as they echo-ed his ridiculous roars and took videos of his strutting around the place like he owned it.
 
Darat said:
If you want to understand how and why Trump was elected you cannot disregard over a decade of PR and marketing that the production company and networks put into The Apprentice and Trump. They created the character that was elected - the hugely successful businessman, who speaks his mind, has a no nonsense approach, takes no prisoners, billionaire mogul, without that he would have had no chance to be elected.

Of course he is stupid and if you ever truly wonder how literally stupid Trump is I think no story illustrates it better than this one: https://theweek.com/speedreads/785891/took-trump-14-years-realize-why-apprentice-named-apprentice
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The strangest thing is that after about twenty episodes (which I confess I was glued to) and his choosing Lil John as the winner, the other day, he swore blind he had never heard of Lil John. Of course, it was the producers who scripted him and chose the winners, otherwise all the ethnic minorities would have been out pronto. [Just having a quiet giggle at the bust up between Meatloaf and Gary Busey. It was good television.]
 
alfaniner said:
The insanity is exemplified during the scene where the guys on the floor are rifling through Cruz's papers, and in the background you can hear Horned Shaman singing something up in the gallery.
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There is one really insane Parler download (see around 4:27pm) some guy is invited by a quasi interviewer to describe what he saw of the shooting. The dude full face to the camera describes being eight feet away and seeing her get a plastic bullet in the chest and a bullet in the neck, 'with blood all pouring out of her back' <fx does an impersonation of her flopping about backwards>. The interviewer says can I pray for you? The guy takes off his hat [even better for FBI to identify him!] and bends his head as a patronising prayer asking Jesus to hold him in his hands and help heal the terrible trauma he has just suffered, is adlibbed by the Parler devotee.

Only in America...
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
#NotAllMiddleClass

You don't think it's noteworthy that so many of our capitol hill invaders are well-to-do professionals with a lot {to} lose? Normally you don't expect so many white collar professionals to become violent felons overnight en masse. People that ought to be enjoying their retirement or golfing at country clubs are now looking to spend time in a federal prison.
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It's seldom been the poorest people in any society who rebel against it. Those with nothing to lose have nothing to gamble with.
 
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