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Cont: Trump’s Coup - Part 2

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I see some of the protestors have been arrested,namely guy who sat in Pelosi's chair as one. Just wondering,considering security and police stood back and let them enter what can they be charged with?
 
Distracted1 said:
You are arguing that she was summarily executed as an example!.

Bravo!
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Could you explain how you got MM using her as an example from his post? Please show your work with reference to specifics of what MM posted, because I've read MM's post several times and can't find it. Please educate me.
 
Meadmaker said:
That is a complete misreading of SGM's statement.

Her statement:

The key word in the sentence is not "lawbreaker". The key word is "threatening". Ashli Babbit was not killed because she broke the law. She was killed because she, and the mob behind her, presented a real threat to the Congressmen inside the House chamber.

Using the "reasonable person" standard of self defense and justification of the use of deadly force, a reasonable person would conclude that the Congressmen were in danger of death or great bodily harm. Under those circumstances, lethal force is justified in self defense or the defense of others.

I'm not happy that she's dead, but, based on the evidence available to us, killing her was justified.
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How did executing her provide protection from the "mob behind her"?
 
Planigale said:
I know that shooting some one does not necessarily kill them. I do accept that if you open fire on someone, you should shoot to kill. That shooting to wound is a Hollywood fantasy. i had wondered whether someone climbing through a window could have been shot in the arm, but I think that if you shoot you shoot to kill.

Did this murdering mob open fire through the window? Were any shots fired by the rioters? The only shots fired I can find by limited googling (Thanks Darat for the advice, ever helpful), were by the police. Of course this officer might not know that other shots were fired by police, and that would be a reason for believing violence was occurring.
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That can not be the only standard by which lethal force is justifiable in a rational world.
 
Planigale said:
Did this murdering mob open fire through the window? Were any shots fired by the rioters?
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No, and that wasn't necessary. A person breaks into my house, and I feel that my life is threatened, I can use deadly force. Multiply that by hundreds in an angry mob. Did you watch those spittle-flecked morons trying smash their way into the chamber? Did you listen to their words? Sorry, your attempt to paint this as a rambunctious lark is a fail.
 
Paul2 said:
While the rest of the mob rushes right past you, or, worse, tries to prevent you from doing what you suggest?
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Again in gun-shy UK all our buildings that house the legislative branches of our governments have armed police. It would be very strange to have your police armed if there weren’t circumstances in which they are meant to use those firearms.

Here is a recentish example in the UK:

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/cri... armed officers near the Houses of Parliament.

“.... The knifeman then stabbed a policeman before being shot dead by armed officers near the Houses of Parliament....”
 
Babbylonian said:
Yes, they were protecting all such people behind them against a violent mob. Would you suggest they just stand aside, maybe hand out visitor badges to the mob trying to reach the legislators and their staffs?

"Come on through, ma'am. You'll find most of Congress down the hall on the right. If you turn left, Vice President Pence will be behind the third door on the right. Be careful of the Secret Service agents! Have a nice day!"
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Have fun storming the castle!
 
Azrael 5 said:
I see some of the protestors have been arrested,namely guy who sat in Pelosi's chair as one. Just wondering,considering security and police stood back and let them enter what can they be charged with?
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I've heard vague sources (still waiting on a major news source to run it) that the WV State Congressman who was part of the mob has also been arrested.
 
Planigale said:
I think the window was only big enough for one person, (with a large back pack), pepper spraying her or tasering her halfway through effectively blocks the hole?
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Are you kidding?!

That police officer was going to risk everything on some estimating of the size of the hole? What guaranteed that the hole would remain the same size? Or that pepper spray and tasering would be *so* likely to wedge her into the hole?

What color is the sky on your planet?

I am happy to stand corrected on this, but I can not imagine how. Please educate me.
 
Azrael 5 said:
I see some of the protestors have been arrested,namely guy who sat in Pelosi's chair as one. Just wondering,considering security and police stood back and let them enter what can they be charged with?
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Seditious conspiracy

"If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both."

18 US code 2384
 
Resume said:
No, and that wasn't necessary. A person breaks into my house, and I feel that my life is threatened, I can use deadly force. Multiply that by hundreds in an angry mob. Did you watch those spittle-flecked morons trying smash their way into the chamber? Did you listen to their words? Sorry, your attempt to paint this as a rambunctious lark is a fail.
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A heavily armed mob. Who killed a police officer.
 
Distracted1 said:
How did executing her provide protection from the "mob behind her"?
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By empirical evidence. Reports indicate that the mob behind her had a change of heart and stopped their efforts, at least long enough for the folk inside to retreat safely.
 
Babbylonian said:
Cool story. And what do you propose they do with the dozens coming in after she gets treated so sweetly?

I'm more against law enforcement overreactions than most people, but this was a mob that was already inside a building illegally, directly attacking our elected government. Deadly force was more than appropriate under the circumstances.
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Well first of all the officer should have asked them all to wear face masks and maintain social distancing, then the police officer could have asked her what was the reason for her being in the building, once she’d established it was to prevent the election of a new president they could have directed her to the correct chamber.
 
Planigale said:
Did this murdering mob open fire through the window? Were any shots fired by the rioters?
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Why is that relevant? Do you honestly think that the only risk to the congress-critters, policemen or staff was from gunfire?

The policeman that was killed was supposedly hit by a fire extinguisher. He was bludgeoned to death. The fact that he wasn't shot instead does not make him any less dead. (Not to mention the individual pictured carrying the type of zip-ties useful in handcuffing people. And the fact that just a day or 2 earlier, authorities had arrested at least one person who was planning on bringing weapons to the riot.)
 
Azrael 5 said:
I see some of the protestors have been arrested,namely guy who sat in Pelosi's chair as one. Just wondering,considering security and police stood back and let them enter what can they be charged with?
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He’s a straightforward one - theft. He stole mail.
 
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