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Cont: Brexit: Now What? The Perfect 10.

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Airfix said:
CN22 label is not much bother.
A commercial invoice is a 1 page document.
Templates are the norm, it's not a massive requirement.
A VAT return is not the end of the world either.

And all trade with the rest of the world requires paperwork.
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I worked in ex-cellars wine shipping - the sheer amount of documentation is huge: letters of credit (a three-page document), promissory notes, forward contracts, bills of exchange, bills of lading, even before the goods arrived in England. All sorts of things can go wrong. We once had a shipping of wine from Chile worth about £2m. Loaded off the ship: the pallets were the WRONG SIZE and had to be sent back.
 
How Brexit Affects Trade Between The UK and Finland (EU)

My local paper - newspapers are regional here - analysed what post-Brexit trade would mean for Finland.

Facts:

  • 2019: Finland Exports to the UK (UK Imports from Finland) €2.7billion 2.6% of Finland's exports
  • 2019 UK Exports to Finland (Finland imports from UK) €1.7billion 4.1% of total imports to Finland
  • UK is Finland's 11th most important trader in terms of monetary value
  • Main imports from the UK to Finland are:
  • Cars
  • Industrial machines and equipment
  • Medical supplies
  • Finland's main export to the UK are:
  • Paper (especially newsprint)
  • Cardboard
  • Mineral oils
  • Wood products

Finland believes that because of the customs duties (tariffs) on goods assembled with parts outside of the EU (depending on Value-Added of each component), the UK might decide to substitute this type of trade with China instead and remain tariff-free. But remember, China is an emerging economy set to be on a par with the west by 2028. These prices won't be as cheap as previously famed.

As the UK relies heavily on Finland for paper and wood products, this is something that might lead to an increase in the price of furniture, newspapers, magazines, packaging and books.

Finland sells a lot of popular UK produced cars as well as tractors. However, the car market is price sensitive so the UK car producers will need to ensure all their parts conform to EU standards if they want to avoid tariffs and price hikes (= decreasing share of the market).

As Finland currently exports £1bn more to the UK than the UK to Finland, it won't be a big loss to Finland as it only represents 4.1% of their total imports and cars, machinery and equipment can be always sought elsewhere if the tariffs are too high.

The UK won't be able to suddenly grow huge forests for pulp, wood and paper supplies.

In addition, Northern Ireland is not affected, as it will still be in the EU.
 
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Teesport gets several ships a week usually around 4000 grt size from Finland, mainly timber and paper.
 
'Baltic Trade' is still important on the East Coast. All the smaller ports like Boston and the other smaller Humber ports, Kings Lynn, Seaham, Goole, Wisbech etc get a lot of timber products and paper.
 
Vixen said:
I worked in ex-cellars wine shipping - the sheer amount of documentation is huge: letters of credit (a three-page document), promissory notes, forward contracts, bills of exchange, bills of lading, even before the goods arrived in England. All sorts of things can go wrong. We once had a shipping of wine from Chile worth about £2m. Loaded off the ship: the pallets were the WRONG SIZE and had to be sent back.
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In my experience, those people who handwave away the administrative difficulties associated with international trade are those who have never had to deal with them.

I include myself in that number - until I tried to set up a subsidiary in the US. Until that point I had no idea how easy we had it just dealing with the EU :o

We ended up winding up the US subsidiary. The administrative headache wasn't worth the razor-thin margins.
 
The Don said:
In my experience, those people who handwave away the administrative difficulties associated with international trade are those who have never had to deal with them.

I include myself in that number - until I tried to set up a subsidiary in the US. Until that point I had no idea how easy we had it just dealing with the EU :o

We ended up winding up the US subsidiary. The administrative headache wasn't worth the razor-thin margins.
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And I think people forget especially for online selling how thin the margins are. If you are factoring in selling internationally then it really isn't going to be worth the hassle in many cases.

I have a couple of EU suppliers that I haven't had to use this year yet but I imagine when I look into it then it may well not be worth it as no doubt they will have to increase prices.
 
Archie Gemmill Goal said:
And I think people forget especially for online selling how thin the margins are. If you are factoring in selling internationally then it really isn't going to be worth the hassle in many cases.

I have a couple of EU suppliers that I haven't had to use this year yet but I imagine when I look into it then it may well not be worth it as no doubt they will have to increase prices.
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Looking in detail at the UPS receipt for my £23 surcharge on goods from China, roughly £12 was customs duty and £11 was a UPS handling charge. Given the cutthroat competition in the delivery business, I suspect that £12 is a fair reflection of the costs involved.

Meanwhile, the sunlit uplands are proving to be elusive.

New border rules introduced last week are already creating problems for exporters and traders, say firms.

On Friday, Marks & Spencer became the latest company to warn of the administrative burden and increase in export costs to some countries.

Parcels firm DPD has already suspended some services and there have been warnings from seafood exporters.
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55583244

Shane Brennan, chief executive of the Cold Chain Federation, which represents chilled transport and storage companies, said the emerging problems have come despite the amount of cross border traffic still being quite low.

"Trade flows are still only about 50% of what we would expect, but even at those levels we are seeing levels of confusion and delays," he told the BBC's Today programme.
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Once again it comes down to actually understanding the deal rather than just accepting government assurances.

"Tariff free does not feel like tariff free when you read the fine print," M&S's chief executive Steve Rowe told Reuters on Thursday, ahead of the retailer's trading update on Friday.

"For big businesses there will be time-consuming workarounds but for a lot of others this means paying tariffs or rebasing into the EU."
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Boris' deal may have been marginally better than no deal at all but it's proving to be a very shoddy deal indeed. :mad:


edited to add.....

I suppose the government is lucky that an attempted coup/insurrection in the US and the rising tide of Covid deaths are keeping the Brexit disruption off the front pages. In the case of Covid, it's likely to be for months IMO.
 
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The Don said:
Meanwhile, the sunlit uplands are proving to be elusive.



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55583244



Once again it comes down to actually understanding the deal rather than just accepting government assurances.



Boris' deal may have been marginally better than no deal at all but it's proving to be a very shoddy deal indeed. :mad:
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I am sorry, I have no sympathy for affected UK businesses. They should have sacked their advisors and employed brexiteers. Regularly supporters of brexit told us they knew exactly what they voted for. They have wanted this for over 4 years. They could explain to businesses how much better off they are with goods stuck in lorry queues, with extra paperwork & administration and the inability to provide services to any of the 27 EU member states. It would stop this incessant whinging if the businesses could appreciate the massive benefits.
 
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The Don said:
Meanwhile, the sunlit uplands are proving to be elusive.



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55583244



Once again it comes down to actually understanding the deal rather than just accepting government assurances.



Boris' deal may have been marginally better than no deal at all but it's proving to be a very shoddy deal indeed. :mad:


edited to add.....

I suppose the government is lucky that an attempted coup/insurrection in the US and the rising tide of Covid deaths are keeping the Brexit disruption off the front pages. In the case of Covid, it's likely to be for months IMO.
Click to expand...


Also from that story:
Scottish seafood exporters say they have been hit by a "perfect storm" of Brexit disruption, which could sink a centuries-old industry.
Click to expand...
 
The Don said:
Looking in detail at the UPS receipt for my £23 surcharge on goods from China, roughly £12 was customs duty and £11 was a UPS handling charge. Given the cutthroat competition in the delivery business, I suspect that £12 is a fair reflection of the costs involved.

Meanwhile, the sunlit uplands are proving to be elusive.



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55583244



Once again it comes down to actually understanding the deal rather than just accepting government assurances.



Boris' deal may have been marginally better than no deal at all but it's proving to be a very shoddy deal indeed. :mad:


edited to add.....

I suppose the government is lucky that an attempted coup/insurrection in the US and the rising tide of Covid deaths are keeping the Brexit disruption off the front pages. In the case of Covid, it's likely to be for months IMO.
Click to expand...

When you consider a huge PLC and MNC like M&S employ top quality logistics, auditors and accounting staff and they're scratching their heads, I doubt the ordinary British sole trader now having to register for VAT to send goods to the EU will find it 'just a case of filling in a template' as ceptimus claims.
 
Lothian said:
I am sorry, I have no sympathy for affected UK businesses. They should have sacked their advisors and employed brexiteers. Regularly supporters of brexit told us they knew exactly what they voted for. They have wanted this for over 4 years. They could explain to businesses how much better off they are with goods stuck in lorry queues, with extra paperwork & administration and the inability to provide services to any of the 27 EU member states. It would stop this incessant whinging if the businesses could appreciate the massive benefits.
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Let's face it, post-Brexit provides plenty of employment for British workers. 50,000 more customs and tax staff. More border guards needed. And why, that sink hole in the world-beating Kent lorry park can easily be filled in by the usual low paid Romanians...oh wait, they've all gone home like we told them to, now one of our own has to do it. No way are we doing any dirty work!!! Where are the foreigners to do all this for us?
 
Vixen said:
Let's face it, post-Brexit provides plenty of employment for British workers. 50,000 more customs and tax staff.
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Despite saying that they would be required, the UK government seem to have done little or nothing to actually recruit them.

Again, grabbing headlines but having no intention of actually following through. :mad:
 
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