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Cont: Brexit: Now What? The Perfect 10.

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Vixen said:
In the past you just filled in an EC form, providing the VAT numbers of whom you supplied to in the EU. 'White goods' had special rules (due to a popular VAT fraud). Well, this might get interesting.
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I think you are talking about B2B sales to the EU. We are talking about B2C sales from the EU to UK
 
Aber said:
Submitting a UK VAT return is 10 minutes work if you have adequate computer systems; it's not a major barrier.
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If you sell 100 items a day it is.


Hell, if you sell 48 items a day then that's a whole new member of staff to pay for.
 
Aber said:
Submitting a UK VAT return is 10 minutes work if you have adequate computer systems; it's not a major barrier.
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10 min per transaction is a pretty big overhead. Besides, requiring EU companies operating in the EU to fill out paperwork for the UK government infringes on EU sovereignty...
 
Aber said:
Submitting a UK VAT return is 10 minutes work if you have adequate computer systems; it's not a major barrier.
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It's unlikely that most small business computer systems would be set up to deal with international VAT though.

You first of all would have to charge the right VAT on the sale. I wouldn't know how to do this on my systems if someone from Belgium wanted to buy something and I had to charge Belgian VAT. I'd have to fudge it. Which takes 5 or 10 minutes of my time out of the day.

Even more complicated if you sell items at different VAT rates and you then need to keep track of what you actually need to charge.

Then you would have to keep track of which items you have sold to the UK, and the VAT charged so you can submit the return. Again just a faff if your system isn't set up for this, which it probably isn't.

Then you need to submit the return. Then you need to actually pay it... in a foreign currency and in a way that HMRC accepts. And incur the charges for the transaction. Plus any currency movement.

Plus you leave yourself open to HMRC deciding that they want to audit you or query your submissions.

Far from 10 minutes every quarter and if you are only doing a handful of orders to the UK I wouldn't bother with it. Would you?


3point14 said:
If you sell 100 items a day it is.

Hell, if you sell 48 items a day then that's a whole new member of staff to pay for.
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lomiller said:
10 min per transaction is a pretty big overhead. Besides, requiring EU companies operating in the EU to fill out paperwork for the UK government infringes on EU sovereignty...
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VAT returns are not per item. They are a quarterly summary of your transactions. But it does require you to have kept a good record of your VATable sales during the quarter.

Its more of a faff if you also have to account for input VAT but i assume overseas companies wouldn't.
 
Aber said:
Submitting a UK VAT return is 10 minutes work if you have adequate computer systems; it's not a major barrier.
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So call it a surcharge on top of the Vat of what an additional $15? 10 minutes is a lot of time for any small ticket sale. Seems easy to just write off selling to the UK and save yourself the headache.
 
Archie Gemmill Goal said:
Its more of a faff if you also have to account for input VAT but i assume overseas companies wouldn't.
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Another possible scenario is that they have computers and software to track VAT but the software won't break it down into "EU VAT" and "UK VAT". There is also the possibility that the business ships to multiple countries.

If all of them want their own VAT or sales tax collected it becomes prohibitive, even if it would be manageable for just 1. In such cases they would likely conclude they won't ship to ANY country that has this requirement.
 
Archie Gemmill Goal said:
It's unlikely that most small business computer systems would be set up to deal with international VAT though.

You first of all would have to charge the right VAT on the sale. I wouldn't know how to do this on my systems if someone from Belgium wanted to buy something and I had to charge Belgian VAT. I'd have to fudge it. Which takes 5 or 10 minutes of my time out of the day.

Even more complicated if you sell items at different VAT rates and you then need to keep track of what you actually need to charge.

Then you would have to keep track of which items you have sold to the UK, and the VAT charged so you can submit the return. Again just a faff if your system isn't set up for this, which it probably isn't.

Then you need to submit the return. Then you need to actually pay it... in a foreign currency and in a way that HMRC accepts. And incur the charges for the transaction. Plus any currency movement.

Plus you leave yourself open to HMRC deciding that they want to audit you or query your submissions.

Far from 10 minutes every quarter and if you are only doing a handful of orders to the UK I wouldn't bother with it. Would you?






VAT returns are not per item. They are a quarterly summary of your transactions. But it does require you to have kept a good record of your VATable sales during the quarter.

Its more of a faff if you also have to account for input VAT but i assume overseas companies wouldn't.
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The issue as I see it is that the VAT Act will need to be updated as all suppliers to overseas will now need to be VAT-registered. Until now, it was only those with a turnover of > £56K who needed to register, by law.

Whilst this might seem straight forward, you would be surprised how many people are utterly terrified of anything to do with VAT or tax returns.


TOMS could become quite complicated (travel industry VAT).

ETA: Ah, good news:

HMRC has confirmed that once the transition period ends on January 1, 2021, the VAT charged on holidays through the Tour Operator Margin Scheme (TOMS) on travel outside of the UK will be zero rated.

The announcement comes after discussions between ABTA and HMRC and removes a crucial area of uncertainty for many travel businesses.

It has been agreed by HMRC on the assumption of a possible no deal with the EU on TOMS.
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ABTA
 
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CN22 label is not much bother.
A commercial invoice is a 1 page document.
Templates are the norm, it's not a massive requirement.
A VAT return is not the end of the world either.

And all trade with the rest of the world requires paperwork.
 
Lothian said:
Scotland didn't get an opt out even though their MPs voted against Brexit.
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Without the votes of more than 1 million Scots, almost 350 thousand Northern Irish voters and 854 thousand Welsh voters, Brexit wouldn't have happened.
The English leave vote was 15.18 million.

The UK voted leave, Scots were part of that vote.

It doesn't matter how the SNP's MPs voted, some Scottish MPs voted to leave the EU and the UK majority voted to leave the EU.

There was no electoral college vote.

The SNP is not the be all and end all of Scotland.

Scotland voted to remain part of the UK in 2014 knowing full well that a referendum on membership of the EU was likely and that Euroskeptic sentiment meant that a leave vote was possible.

The SNP flunked the 2014 referendum because they couldn't even state what currency an independent Scotland would use.
They've since tried to rewrite their history.
 
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Airfix said:
.

It doesn't matter how the SNP's MPs voted, some Scottish MPs voted to leave the EU and the UK majority voted to leave the EU.

.
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Lets go back.

You said "the process for changing UK law requires the MPs of one country to change"

You now agree with me. it doesn't matter how the MPs of one country vote.

That however defeats your argument that the UK system is more democratic than the EU one.

It doesn't matter what the elected members of a country want they can be overruled by others. The difference between that in the UK and EU is that there was an opt out in the latter and therefore more recognition of "Sovereignty" .
 
Airfix said:
CN22 label is not much bother.
A commercial invoice is a 1 page document.
Templates are the norm, it's not a massive requirement.
A VAT return is not the end of the world either.

And all trade with the rest of the world requires paperwork.
Click to expand...

And many businesses don't bother trading with the rest of the world because the paperwork is a hassle.

Your dismissal of business hassles is noted but your opinion is of no real weight, all that matters is what business thinks. And they are telling you that it is a bother.

But nevermind you got your imaginary sovereignty. Looking forward to the Tories nationalising the railways and pouring billions into the steel industry now that they are free from the shackles of the EU?
 
Airfix said:
Without the votes of more than 1 million Scots, almost 350 thousand Northern Irish voters and 854 thousand Welsh voters, Brexit wouldn't have happened.
The English leave vote was 15.18 million.

The UK voted leave, Scots were part of that vote.

It doesn't matter how the SNP's MPs voted, some Scottish MPs voted to leave the EU and the UK majority voted to leave the EU.

There was no electoral college vote.

The SNP is not the be all and end all of Scotland.

Scotland voted to remain part of the UK in 2014 knowing full well that a referendum on membership of the EU was likely and that Euroskeptic sentiment meant that a leave vote was possible.

The SNP flunked the 2014 referendum because they couldn't even state what currency an independent Scotland would use.
They've since tried to rewrite their history.
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Brexiteer lies about facts. There's a surprise
 
As you know, the Brexit referendum was a UK-wide referendum. How different parts of the UK voted may be interesting, but it doesn't affect the result.

When a referendum was held in just Scotland, then their vote was in favour of remaining in the union (the UK, that is).

The SNP position is wholly inconsistent. The vote that wasn't just in Scotland, they want to treat as though it were - but the vote that actually was just in Scotland they want to ignore and reverse.

Of course, the truth is that the SNP will say anything to pursue their main aim of separating from the UK: if the Brexit referendum result had gone the other way, then the SNP would have found some different excuse to ignore the "once in a generation" referendum result, and hold a rerun.

It amazes me that the SNP mock and taunt the UK for breaking away from the union they were in - when that aim is the main reason for the SNP's own existence.
 
Archie Gemmill Goal said:
And many businesses don't bother trading with the rest of the world because the paperwork is a hassle.

Your dismissal of business hassles is noted but your opinion is of no real weight, all that matters is what business thinks. And they are telling you that it is a bother.

But nevermind you got your imaginary sovereignty. Looking forward to the Tories nationalising the railways and pouring billions into the steel industry now that they are free from the shackles of the EU?
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In terms of volume and dollar value, is Brexit the largest increase in red-tape in human history? I can't think of anything else that would come close.
 
ceptimus said:
As you know, the Brexit referendum was a UK-wide referendum. How different parts of the UK voted may be interesting, but it doesn't affect the result.

When a referendum was held in just Scotland, then their vote was in favour of remaining in the union (the UK, that is).

The SNP position is wholly inconsistent. The vote that wasn't just in Scotland, they want to treat as though it were - but the vote that actually was just in Scotland they want to ignore and reverse.

Of course, the truth is that the SNP will say anything to pursue their main aim of separating from the UK: if the Brexit referendum result had gone the other way, then the SNP would have found some different excuse to ignore the "once in a generation" referendum result, and hold a rerun.

It amazes me that the SNP mock and taunt the UK for breaking away from the union they were in - when that aim is the main reason for the SNP's own existence.
Click to expand...

Oh look a Brexiteer lying and distorting facts again. Quelle surprise.
 
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