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Cont: Brexit: Now What? The Perfect 10.

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Darat said:
And the EU has specific trade deals with many countries that we in the UK benefited from but now we don’t.
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Even with a trade deal in place you typically have to validate import duties are either paid or don't need to be paid. Countries are usually more concerned with duties because not charging them disadvantages local businesses.

It's also not enough to have a trade deal in place because you could still be shipping a product that originated in a third country that is subject to duties. Eg Canada has a much higher tariff rate on China than the US does. This would allow retailers shipping from the US to significantly undercut Canadian based retailers if these duties were not paid. This means there is a lot of additional paperwork to be done when shipping products from the US, which in turn means most US companies won't ship products directly to Canada.

Another historic issue is the differences between US and Canadian credit card law. For "cardholder not present" transactions in Canada it's up to the retailer to prove the customer really made the purchases. If you find a transaction you didn't make you can refuse it and it's up to the retailer to prove you are lying. In the US it's the reverse, you need to prove that you didn't make the purchase or you are on the hook for paying it. These days insurance mostly covered it either way but there is still the issue of who pays for that insurance.

Darat said:
Plus because the EU is such a large single trading block it is often advantageous for a company to have a “local” office somewhere in the EU that handles customer sales in the EU so that the amount of red tape is massively reduced.

The UK has now lost the benefit of all those arrangements.
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This is how most US - Canada online transactions work. Basically ship to a warehouse then distribute from there. It will probabaly end up being how things work in the UK as well, but of course many companies won't bother so product availability will be higher and prices will be lower in the EU because it's the larger market.
 
Lothian said:
So Welsh MPs can change UK law?
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Potentially yes.
Any MP from any party has the ability to write a better law, put it to the House, Parliament can debate and vote on it.

Not only that, any MP can propose a referendum in which we can vote on the policies put forth in the referendum.

Admittedly, being from the party that's in government helps.
But any MP front or back bench can propose a complete policy.
 
Darat said:
And we in the UK still have to abide with the terms of a completely undemocratic organisation that we as UK voters have no say in or ability to change anything i.e. the WTO, which can make judgements against the UK and fine the UK.

So if it mattered that there was a “democratic deficit ” whilst we were in the EU, why doesn’t it matter we have an even greater one with the WTO?

One suspects this inconsistency may indicate the democratic deficit was not such an important part of many peoples’ decision.
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A valid concern.
We can and should address this issue.
We now have a seat at the WTO of our own.
We should hold elections to choose our representative at the WTO so they will fight for our interests rather than just corporate lobbyists.
 
Airfix said:
Not only that, any MP can propose a referendum in which we can vote on the policies put forth in the referendum.
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The UK is a Parliamentary Democracy not a Direct Democracy. Referendums have no legal authority beyond the governments promise to honor the result. Even a binding referendum can be overruled by Parliament.
 
Airfix said:
A valid concern.
We can and should address this issue.
We now have a seat at the WTO of our own.
We should hold elections to choose our representative at the WTO so they will fight for our interests rather than just corporate lobbyists.
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Countries using the WTO as a battleground to fight for their own individual interests goes against the WTO mandate. If the UK behaved like this I'd support ejecting the UK from any policy role in the WTO until it could learn to behave like an adult wrt international affairs.
 
Airfix said:
Potentially yes.

Any MP from any party has the ability to write a better law, put it to the House, Parliament can debate and vote on it.



Not only that, any MP can propose a referendum in which we can vote on the policies put forth in the referendum.



Admittedly, being from the party that's in government helps.

But any MP front or back bench can propose a complete policy.
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Comparing one step of one function in the path of a bill in parliament to the entire EU apparatus.

Of course one will seem simpler.
 
Airfix said:
Potentially yes.
Any MP from any party has the ability to write a better law, put it to the House, Parliament can debate and vote on it.

Not only that, any MP can propose a referendum in which we can vote on the policies put forth in the referendum.

Admittedly, being from the party that's in government helps.
But any MP front or back bench can propose a complete policy.
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I suspect you are deliberately missing the point.

You said "the process for changing UK law requires the MPs of one country to change"

That is not true changing UK law requires majority of the parliament. Other than English MPs, the MPs of Scotland Wales and Northern Ireland do not have enough votes on their own to change UK law. As such our parliament is as undemocratic (if you want to use that term) as the EU parliament (the original discussion we were having). Arguably less so as where UK MEPs were out voted there was often an opt out. Scotland didn't get an opt out even though their MPs voted against Brexit.

I note you continue to avoid the sovereignty question. Should I assume you don't have a rational answer or should I continue to press you for an answer?
 
Airfix said:
Only temporarily.

Hardly compares to all the trouble and costs remainers have caused by trying to cancel Brexit.

If it hadn't been for this stupid people's vote nonsense the 2019 election wouldn't have happened, the risk of fox hunting being re legalised wouldn't have appeared, the Tories wouldn't have an absolute majority, and the odds are a deal more suited to your preferences could have happened.

We had a vote, Parliament stated that it would honour that vote, then voted to honour it, so it's not just "advisory", then we had a general election. Labour backed leaving the EU, and gained seats, the Tories lost their majority.

Then Labour stopped backing leaving the EU, there was another general election and Labour handed absolute power to Boris Johnson.

When will your side learn that you've empowered the ERG by not providing a moderate alternative ?
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Why do Brexiteers' posts read like sixth form essays...?

I can spot quite a few 'schoolboy howlers' in there.

Must do better.
 
Archie Gemmill Goal said:
How did you work that out?

There is no longer a VAT threshold for overseas sellers as far as I can see so VAT is due on every sale.

That being the case it seems unlikely that it would be worthwhile for a company that makes occasional sales to the UK to bother with having to submit quarterly UK VAT returns.
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In the past you just filled in an EC form, providing the VAT numbers of whom you supplied to in the EU. 'White goods' had special rules (due to a popular VAT fraud). Well, this might get interesting.
 
gypsyjackson said:
Salient to what? Whether to pay subsidy? I think you need to ask what you want to change/maintain through the use of subsidy.

The figures I gave for income were based on the most common grain grown in the UK, where the UK is among the best at growing it due to climate/soil etc, with a high end yield (and a generous price).

I’m also not sure that the definition of an acre from a time when agriculture was barely above subsistence level is useful in helping to determine if subsidy should be paid today. An area smaller than a football pitch doesn’t feel like a normal field to someone who grew up in the East of England!
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A football pitch is only 0.53 hectares, thus twelve acres is more equivalent ten football pitches. Not arguing with you, just trying to get it into perspective. Of course, the average farm is traditionally 'a hundred acres' in the history books and there are several fields, not one. Of course, this would vary widely and modern agricultural techniques mean farms are run as large corporate enterprises over many hundreds or thousands of hectares. Germany remains the 'bread basket of Europe'. I am interested in finding out the effect of Brexit on agricultural farmers in the UK and how it impacts on the EU.
 
it doesn't impact on the EU at all. It robs UK farmers of their main export market though.

Hill farmed sheep have had it.
 
Vixen said:
A football pitch is only 0.53 hectares, thus twelve acres is more equivalent ten football pitches.
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More like 5-6. FIFA optimal is 1.7 - 2.0 acres. 30ish feet of sideline area adds another 1/2 an acre.
 
I'm sure Norwegian fishing boat captains are counting on their fingers now; Where to land this catch, I wonder? Grimsby, UK, or Skagen, Denmark... ? ;)
 
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