Major explosion in downtown Nashville

[Checkmite]

If you're wondering if the police had probable cause ask yourself 2 questions:
1) What would the police had done if the girlfriend had said AQW was cooking meth in his camper?

Counter question:

1) What would the police have done if the girlfriend had said AQW had cached weapons in his camper in what he had said was preparation for a mass shooting at a local shopping business he didn't specify?

 

[marting]

Seems pretty elaborate for a suicide. And it isn't all that easy to put it together. While that may also be a consequence, the guy was trying to make some other point. Like to know what sort of bomb he cobbled together. Fuel air with propane? Would that do the level of damage seen?

Hmm. Here's a guy that also thinks it was a fuel (propane) air bomb.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/n...-a-very-rare-device-experts-think/ar-BB1cp0uD

"We’ve never seen an improvised thermobaric device before in this country or any country,” says Dave Williams, who conducted the FBI’s on-scene investigations of the World Trade Center, Oklahoma City, Pan Am 103 and Unabomber bombings, among other notorious incidents. Thermobaric refers to a gaseous fuel-air explosion.

“The reason is, it's very difficult to get the timing down to get an optimum mixture of air and a liquified carbonaceous fuel such as propane, methane, acetylene or natural gas,” Williams told SpyTalk.

We have seen attempts like at Columbine. Luckily the two perps had no idea what to do. Unluckily, they did know how to shoot.

There have been other incompetent attempts in England.

But I take issue with William's comment that it's difficult. Unless one was asleep in high school chemistry. I wasn't which was why I suggested this might have been what AQW cobbled together.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Counter question:

1) What would the police have done if the girlfriend had said AQW had cached weapons in his camper in what he had said was preparation for a mass shooting at a local shopping business he didn't specify?

It's not really analogous because firearms are generally lawful, while homemade bombs are almost always not.


The meth lab is a better analogy because illegal drugs, like bombs, are contraband. The alleged existence of such things can undergird a warrant application.

 

[Checkmite]

It's not really analogous because firearms are generally lawful, while homemade bombs are almost always not.

Absolutely; and yet, despite the fact that there is no legitimate, lawful reason for a person to build or possess a bomb while there are lawful reasons to possess firearms, does anybody doubt that if the girlfriend and his lawyer had told police that Warner intended a mass shooting, that they would have obtained a search warrant and entered his property to search at the very least?

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Absolutely; and yet, despite the fact that there is no legitimate, lawful reason for a person to build or possess a bomb while there are lawful reasons to possess firearms, does anybody doubt that if the girlfriend and his lawyer had told police that Warner intended a mass shooting, that they would have obtained a search warrant and entered his property to search at the very least?

I doubt it. Cops are lazy and they don't believe women when they complain about the dangerous men in their lives.

 

[Checkmite]

I doubt it. Cops are lazy and they don't believe women when they complain about the dangerous men in their lives.

Well I did add "and his lawyer".

 

[cosmicaug]

Counter question:

1) What would the police have done if the girlfriend had said AQW had cached weapons constitutionally protected instruments of freedom in his camper in what he had said was preparation for a mass shooting display of exercise of personal freedom at a local shopping business he didn't specify?

Fixed that for you.

 

[casebro]

Hmm. Here's a guy that also thinks it was a fuel (propane) air bomb.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/n...-a-very-rare-device-experts-think/ar-BB1cp0uD

"We’ve never seen an improvised thermobaric device before in this country or any country,” says Dave Williams, who conducted the FBI’s on-scene investigations of the World Trade Center, Oklahoma City, Pan Am 103 and Unabomber bombings, among other notorious incidents. Thermobaric refers to a gaseous fuel-air explosion.

“The reason is, it's very difficult to get the timing down to get an optimum mixture of air and a liquified carbonaceous fuel such as propane, methane, acetylene or natural gas,” Williams told SpyTalk.

We have seen attempts like at Columbine. Luckily the two perps had no idea what to do. Unluckily, they did know how to shoot.

There have been other incompetent attempts in England.

But I take issue with William's comment that it's difficult. Unless one was asleep in high school chemistry. I wasn't which was why I suggested this might have been what AQW cobbled together.

Witnesses after the fact would have noted the smell of any commercial gas.

Seems to me there is always a residue that they swab for and know immediately what the materiel was.

I'll suspect dynamite purchased with his explosives handler's license. Because that is regulated, and it will look like the regulators missed doing their jobs.

 

[RecoveringYuppy]

Hmm. Here's a guy that also thinks it was a fuel (propane) air bomb.

About the only good reason I see for believing the guy cited at that link is that he might have insider information. What are your reasons for focusing on this particular kind of bomb?

 

[marting]

I'll suspect dynamite purchased with his explosives handler's license. Because that is regulated, and it will look like the regulators missed doing their jobs.

The only reference I found that he had an expired explosive handlers license was a FOX17
report 4 days ago with a byline by a digital media manager that came from the sports world. Would expect that there would be a lot more about this if it was actually true. Bayes and all.

According to the TDCI database, Warner held the license from November 26, 2013 to November 25, 2016

I checked the TDCI license database. Nothing there.

 

[rockinkt]

Yes, I can see that and agree. But note that "get a warrant" is not top of his list. Some of us are wondering what it takes to get a warrant and this poster and the authority he cites seems to think the police would have needed to build probable cause, not that they already had probable cause.

"The authority" is the Chief of Police doing everything he can to protect his officers and his department from blame. Using his words as some sort of unbiased opinion is almost laughable.

edited to add: Ninja'd by numerous posters.

 

[marting]

About the only good reason I see for believing the guy cited at that link is that he might have insider information. What are your reasons for focusing on this particular kind of bomb?

I doubt he has insider info. Rather, he is basing it on videos of the explosion. He doesn't state that it's fact, rather he considers it the most likely design. He has a bit of experience.

We’ve never seen an improvised thermobaric device before in this country or any country,” says Dave Williams, who conducted the FBI’s on-scene investigations of the World Trade Center, Oklahoma City, Pan Am 103 and Unabomber bombings, among other notorious incidents.

My reasons are that it requires little that an RV doesn't already have. And it's a simple matter of calculation. Question is whether it would be powerful enough to do the damage shown. That's beyond my experience/knowledge but seemed possible looking at the energy involved.

 

[Modified]

Witnesses after the fact would have noted the smell of any commercial gas.

Seems to me there is always a residue that they swab for and know immediately what the materiel was.

I'll suspect dynamite purchased with his explosives handler's license. Because that is regulated, and it will look like the regulators missed doing their jobs.

It did look like a very big and orange flash.

 

[Modified]

My reasons are that it requires little that an RV doesn't already have. And it's a simple matter of calculation. Question is whether it would be powerful enough to do the damage shown. That's beyond my experience/knowledge but seemed possible looking at the energy involved.

If he was using some other explosive, maybe he just let the gas leak on the RV stove for a while in addition to that.

 

[RecoveringYuppy]

"The authority" is the Chief of Police doing everything he can to protect his officers and his department from blame. Using his words as some sort of unbiased opinion is almost laughable.

I didn't say anything about his bias or lack of bias. And, in fact, I recognize his bias.

edited to add: Ninja'd by numerous posters.

"Numerous" is one?

 

[DevilsAdvocate]

In the body cam footage there was a quick succession of five or six blasts right before the explosion. I don't know anything about explosives. Wouldn't that be a series of explosives strung together? Wouldn't a fuel air bomb just have an ignition with a single big boom?

 

[RecoveringYuppy]

My reasons are that it requires little that an RV doesn't already have.

Ah, that's reasonable.

And it's a simple matter of calculation. Question is whether it would be powerful enough to do the damage shown. That's beyond my experience/knowledge but seemed possible looking at the energy involved.

OK, what calculation did you do?

Question is whether it would be powerful enough to do the damage shown. That's beyond my experience/knowledge but seemed possible looking at the energy involved.

Most any bomb material could have been powerful enough to do the damage inflicted. It damaged several fairly flimsy buildings. And from a strictly energy perspective propane is much more energy dense than most explosives on a pound for pound basis. Energy density isn't the key to most explosives, they key is getting all the energy released quickly.

 

[DevilsAdvocate]

The only reference I found that he had an expired explosive handlers license was a FOX17
report 4 days ago with a byline by a digital media manager that came from the sports world. Would expect that there would be a lot more about this if it was actually true. Bayes and all.

According to the TDCI database, Warner held the license from November 26, 2013 to November 25, 2016

I checked the TDCI license database. Nothing there.

It's there. Look under Explosive User Permits-Handler. No middle name.

Could be a different person with the same name. The city is listed as Lafayette. There are a number of people with the same name in Lafayette, including a sheriff's deputy.

 

[RecoveringYuppy]

My reasons are that it requires little that an RV doesn't already have.

Ah, that's reasonable.

And it's a simple matter of calculation. Question is whether it would be powerful enough to do the damage shown. That's beyond my experience/knowledge but seemed possible looking at the energy involved.

OK, what calculation did you do?

Question is whether it would be powerful enough to do the damage shown. That's beyond my experience/knowledge but seemed possible looking at the energy involved.

Most any bomb material could have been powerful enough to do the damage inflicted. It damaged several fairly flimsy buildings. And from a strictly energy perspective propane is much more energy dense than most explosives on a pound for pound basis. Energy density isn't the key to most explosives, they key is getting all the energy released quickly.

 

[whoanellie]

It's there. Look under Explosive User Permits-Handler. No middle name.

Could be a different person with the same name. The city is listed as Lafayette. There are a number of people with the same name in Lafayette, including a sheriff's deputy.

I remember reading some tweets that the person with the explosives permit was a different Anthony Warner.