Cont: Brexit: Now What? The Perfect 10.

[Jack by the hedge]

Which participants in any such coalition do you fear would forget about the Charter of the United Nations or their NATO obligations?

 

[Airfix]

Well, I ran into my first brexit complications.
When I lived and worked in the UK I set up an amazon.co.uk account to order some stuff.
When I moved back to the Netherlands I kept the account and when they set up prime I used that because there was no dutch amazon at the time and due to EU rules I could watch it in any country.
As of today I had to cancel it and get a version that still works in the EU.

I hope there weren't expats hoping to be able to watch things with their UK accounts because now they can't
A great step forward of course.

And due to EU rules you can't use Amazon from a non member country ?

The French version of Amazon works with my account although trying to use Prime video redirects me to the UK site.

 

[Airfix]

Which participants in any such coalition do you fear would forget about the Charter of the United Nations or their NATO obligations?

Anyone with a Blairite interventionist mindset.
Blair never seemed to care about the Charter of the United Nations or NATO obligations.

Look how Iraq went.

 

[GlennB]

"It was all quiet on the Dover front in the hours after the UK left the EU, as lorries continued to avoid the port.

But just minutes away, beyond the famous white cliffs, the sense of fury over Brexit was palpable as local residents came to terms with a government letter they received on New Year’s Eve telling them that from summer, their rural idyll of farmland and ancient Roman ways would be transformed into a customs clearance lorry park for 1,200 trucks.

Locals say they feel “betrayed” and “trapped” by the “lies” of the government over Brexit."

Full article

Airfix, if you think leaving the EU will improve the UK's natural environment you are simply kidding yourself.

 

[Lothian]

The new FTA with the EU is already agreed many EU negotiated FTAs were copied over last year.

Details here:

FTAs with Australia and New Zealand won't take too long. Probably a year to two years.

The USA Australia FTA negotiations began in 2003 and concluded in 2004.
UK Australia FTA negotiations shouldn't take long.
Remember we couldn't negotiate new FTAs whilst inside the customs union as TFEU207 forbade it.
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:12008E207:en:HTML

The highlighted part is wrong as the earlier part of your post made clear. We left the customs union yesterday but have been rolling over agreements for a year. See the withdrawal agreement preamble

RECOGNISING that, even if Union law will be applicable to and in the United Kingdom during the transition period, the specificities of the United Kingdom as a State having withdrawn from the Union mean that it will be important for the United Kingdom to be able to take steps to prepare and establish new international arrangements of its own, including in areas of Union exclusive competence, provided such agreements do not enter into force or apply during that period, unless so authorised by the Union,

and article 129

...during the transition period, the United Kingdom may negotiate, sign and ratify international agreements entered into in its own capacity in the areas of exclusive competence of the Union, provided those agreements do not enter into force or apply during the transition period, unless so authorised by the Union.

 

[Andy_Ross]

I now have to fill out and attach a customs declaration form to anything I send to Europe.

A lot of the smaller things I sell through my web shop and ebay are just at the right price to attract duty.
I have had to put extra postage on for items going to the EU, they are the same as the 'rest of the world' now.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Anyone with a Blairite interventionist mindset.
Blair never seemed to care about the Charter of the United Nations or NATO obligations.

Look how Iraq went.

So the UK was able to use it's military in any way it wanted?

How is that any different?

How are NATO obligations any different to anything from the EU?

If Turkey calls for clause 5 support we are obligated to comply.

only one country has called for clause 5 support from NATO allies, that was the USA.

We went running and attacked Iraq and Afghanistan.

 

[Andy_Ross]

The highlighted part is wrong as the earlier part of your post made clear. We left the customs union yesterday but have been rolling over agreements for a year. See the withdrawal agreement preamble


and article 129

Don't bring facts in to this!

 

[Darat]

The highlighted part is wrong as the earlier part of your post made clear. We left the customs union yesterday but have been rolling over agreements for a year. See the withdrawal agreement preamble


and article 129

Which should have been apparent to anyone paying any sort of attention since we have signed trade deals like the historic Anglo-Japanese-Stilton trade deal since we left the EU over a year ago.

 

[Ape of Good Hope]

Oh so you like an opinion poll.

Yep. I like a poll, me. The more you collate, the clearer the picture.

Check out the stats across the 166 polls in the link. A pretty clear shift over time.

This comprehensive list shows the same trend:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opini...of_the_European_Union_(2016–2020)#Right/wrong)



I like these ones too:

"Majority of EU population feel good about bloc, study finds.
In the UK 60% of respondents have a favourable view, the highest on record"

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...u-population-feel-good-about-bloc-study-finds


"Four years after Brexit, support for the EU surges in Britain"

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/25/uk/uk-supports-eu-four-years-after-brexit-intl-gbr/index.html


Funny old thing, the will of the people.

 

[Lukraak_Sisser]

And due to EU rules you can't use Amazon from a non member country ?

The French version of Amazon works with my account although trying to use Prime video redirects me to the UK site.

I think it was more that the EU prevented amazon from blocking it beforehand.
But since that is no longer the case...

Of course it's not like large companies would like it when international cooperation crumbles so they can enforce people to spend more money.

 

[catsmate]

I am aware that Gibraltar is part England (UK?) but not how Brexit changes the status quo. Could you enlighten this colonist?

Gibraltar isn't part of the UK, it's an Overseas Territory (obtained via the Treaty of Utrecht in 1714) and is utterly dependent on Spain (it imports, for example, 100% of its food supplies).
Gib will join the Schengen Travel Area (Spain will ac as a guarantor) for free travel to/from Spain and the EU (thought not the UK). Gibraltar’s airport and port will be staffed by Frontex (the EU border agency) for border checks with Spanish police and security on-site. There will be free movement of goods and people between Gib and Spain, an improvement over the prior situation.
Gib will also remain in/join various other EU programmes.

So much for:

The UK has always been, and will remain, totally committed to the protection of the interests of Gibraltar and its British sovereignty.

Effectively BoJo has repudiated British control over Gibraltar. The effects on Gib's (extremely dubious) financial services activities will be interesting

 

[catsmate]

Gibraltar is a self governing overseas territory protected by the British military.
Gibraltar's participation in Schengen is a matter for the people who live there, not the people on the British mainland.

Meanwhile Spain holds the territories of Melilla and Ceuta in Morocco which are surrounded by heavily fortified fences. So it's kind of hypocritical of their government to moan about Gibraltar.

What a pity the Scots haven't been given a similar option.

We've faced prejudice and insult over and over again, the possibility of intelligent reasons for leaving the EU are always ignored by people who unfortunately are fanatically wed to the idea that the only way countries can work together is in a political union.

More Brexiteer bollocks.

I'm an internationalist, but I want my country to be self governing in it's laws.
Yes, the democratic means to rejoin one day, have to be on the table, I wouldn't be a democrat if I didn't support democracy.

And yet you make nonsensical claims about the "undemocratic" EU.

But we had a vote, Parliament decided to honour it,

It's a pity the "deal" bears no resemblance to the one promised, the one people voted on...

we had two General Elections in which those opposed to that vote lost badly.

Right.... No other factors were involved.

Labour has now lost it's Red Wall. Even Dennis Skinner's seat of Bolsover turned blue - Bolsover!!

I never saw that coming, the most left wing seat in the entire country, held their noses and voted Tory because of Labour's policy on Brexit.

I'm sure you'll provide evidence that Brexit was the only reason, nothing at all to do with the festering insanity of Corbyn.

 

[catsmate]

Apparently Ireland will be the first to leave.

Support for leaving the EU has dropped precipitously since the UK's example. The support for London leaving the UK is higher, and far more likely.
But then no-one with a working brain takes Farage's rantings seriously.

 

[abaddon]

Has he read the deal? Basically the UK has surrendered control of Gibraltar's borders and the idiot Brexiteers have bought it.

Worse. Control of the ports and airports is now Spains. Gib is now in Schengen so those people have actually enhanced their EU rights above what they were at the start. People from Gibraltar retain the freedom of movement and residency they always had with Schengen added.

The UK does not have any of that anymore.

 

[catsmate]

Oh so you like an opinion poll.
So what?
Lots of opinion polls before the referendum predicted a remain win.

It's a poll, it's meaningless, it's not a vote.
Should we change course every time an opinion poll says something ? No.

Besides opinion polls can be steered with leading questions.
The leading questions don't get published only the final one.

It's not exactly scientific.

The pathetic denial of uncomfortable reality. But then what else was Brexit about?

It's a pity the Brexiteers were too cowardly to put their rantings about "democracy" to the test and have a referendum on accepting the EU-UK deal, or abandoning the nonsense. But then moral courage was never very visible amongst them.

 

[catsmate]

What will be great is that we will now see the government pouring money into UK companies that they apparently wanted to do before but EU rules wouldn’t let us.

I'm sure the Brexiteers will develop a new lie to fool the gullible.

 

[3point14]

I didn't vote because of the bus. The £350m a week claim is based on the gross figure of £17.4m a year pre rebate.
But what that statement did do, was get the in campaign obsessing over the membership fee and reminding everyone that we were spending £170m a week on membership of a political customs union that forbade us from having an independent trade policy, agricultural policy or fisheries policy.

You know it's impossible to have an independent trade policy, don't you?

 

[catsmate]

a political customs union that forbade us from having an independent trade policy, agricultural policy or fisheries policy.

Yes, instead you were part of a major trading block; now you do what the US tells you.

Trade with the EU had fallen from 57% of exports in 2000 to 43% by 2016.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/businessindu...ade/articles/whodoestheuktradewith/2017-02-21

Ah the usual Brexiteer lies. That covers only 'goods' not services. Maybe you've heard of the tertiary sector?

Was it really worth spending £9bn a year on membership ? NO.

Yes, In the Real Workd, if not in Brexiteer fantasy land.

Is this deal perfect ? NO.
Is it in my view a better deal than the one we had before ? YES.

This demonstrates your abject lack of understanding of trade batter than anything.

Better agricultural policy, better fisheries policy, independent trade policy and the ability to negotiate FTAs of our own.

Also non participation in dangerous EU military projects.

Such as? Unlike your participation in dangerous US military projects.....

 

[Delphic Oracle]

The EU military staff:

https://eeas.europa.eu/topics/common-security-and-defence-policy-csdp/5436_en



The EU Battlegroups:

https://www.consilium.europa.eu/uedocs/cms_data/docs/pressdata/en/esdp/91624.pdf



In the North Atlantic Treaty there is a clause called Article 1.



It reads thus:



"The Parties undertake, as set forth in the Charter of the United Nations, to settle any international dispute in which they may be involved by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security and justice are not endangered, and to refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force in any manner inconsistent with the purposes of the United Nations."



Any military project not bound by the principles of that article, is dangerous.

Because it does not have to refrain from threat or use of force, it does not have to settle disputes by peaceful means or avoid jeopardising international security.



If they copied Article 1 into their own policies, that would alleviate my concern on the matter.

Okay, what is dangerous about the staff and the battlegroups?

NATO is NATO, not the EU.

Is article 1 copied into UK policies in such manner demanded of the EU (honest question)?