Cont: Brexit: Now What? The Perfect 10.

Status
Not open for further replies.
Airfix said:
There's The i, the Guardian, the Independent (now online only), regional newspapers, the Financial Times.

There is a lot of tabloid nonsense though. Daily Mail is one of the worst.

I dearly wish papers were required, as the BBC is, to be impartial.

They shouldn't tell people how to vote, they should only be able to report the policies.
Click to expand...

The TIMES used to be a giant amongst the papers. Now it is simply awful. I used to get the FINANCIAL TIMES every day as part of my job and it is one paper I still respect. It gives you the ruling class view. No disguises there! I stopped bothering to read the TIMES.

The DAILY MAIL is superb at 'developing news' with some fantastic photography. Politically it is urgh!
 
Airfix said:
The idea that 17.41 million people are racist little Englanders, is delusional rubbish.

Meanwhile, this is the proposed deal:

Have a read, and judge it by it's content, rather than prejudice.

I haven't read it yet.

I will not judge it until I have.
Click to expand...


Let's face it Brexit was sold on the idea that '76 million Turks' were about to join the EU and people not liking the Polish shops opening up in the high street of Market Harborough. The Cornish people were dreadfully racist so now they have lost out on a generous EU grant they had been getting.
 
Airfix said:
National governments in our case lost every EU election since 1994 and in my view had no remit to represent the public at EU level. The party which won the EU elections in those years should have been the ones to put forward the Commissioner.
Click to expand...

This is just odd. And pretty much irrelevant to the question asked.
 
Airfix said:
Btw I would get rid of the Lords as they are not elected.
Cabinet ministers who are MPs can be sacked by their constituents.
Even the PM can be.
As such they are required to listen to constituents.
I've been able to talk to successive MPs in my constituency.

Any MP can propose legislation of their own to Parliament.

How was I supposed to be able to influence a Commissioner and talk to them about policy?
Click to expand...

In exactly the same way I am able to influence the Home Secretary or Health Secretary.
 
angrysoba said:
It was you who claimed that you hadn't read (and couldn't read!) criticism of the Brexit deal in the UK press. Why are you trying to have it both ways claiming that:

1.) there is no criticism of it in the British press
AND
2.) you read the Guardian criticism of it.

All you have to do is qualify what you said earlier instead of changing the subject to Corbyn.



I don't read the tabloids.
Click to expand...

Wait a minute. That Der Speigel article is way more hard-hitting than anything in the GRAUNIAD, with perhaps the exception of Polly Toynbee, Marina Hynde and John Grace who are given a free leash to be harsh...as long as they are amusing about it.

Let's face it, Boris Johnson is about as useful as a chocolate teapot, yet we see the British Press en masse singing his praises and 'hailing' his poxy deal.

If the GUARDIAN is sincere in wanting an alternative to the far-right elements of what constitutes today's Conservative Party, then why did they refuse to give the Labour Party - the proper alternative - its backing in the General Election, bearing in mind Johnson is way WAY worse than any shortcomings to be found in Jeremy Corbyn.

No, the only time the so-called left (incl. the DAILY MIRROR) urges its readers to vote Labour is when there is a quasi-Tory lookalike party leader in place, such as Tony Blair (a Tory who only joined labour because of his wife's influence). I have great respect for Keir Starmer as a human rights barrister and his calm logic in the house, but unfortunately, he is a Blairite and if elected to Prime Minister in four year's time, sadly won't be much different from 'Boris' because there is no way the offshore billionaire-owned TELEGRAPH and the other non-Dom owned papers will give their backing to Labour otherwise. These guys know the power of the press and how to work their shoddy propaganda.
 
Last edited:
Carrot Flower King said:
What the BBC is now a liberal left wing bubble? After all those years of Nick Robinson and Laura Kuensberg brown-nosing Tory governments, Evan Davis running in the direction of away from asking challenging questions of ministers or refusing to call out absolute lies? That BBC? What about the one which seemed to have Farage trotting out his xenophobic Little Englander schtick on every programme? That BBC? The BBC with Question Time on?
Click to expand...

When did anyone say the BBC is now a liberal left wing bubble? As you point out, the average BBC viewer ISN'T seeing these things.

Living in Berwick constituency with my ERG MP? Next door to folk who vote for her and think Johnson is doing a good job? With local press who lap up and regurgitate without question every little thing our MP says and does? Being harangued in Alnwick (when I was still at work) by the local UKIP useful idiot pretty much every week (we shared a building with local social services, so he figured everyone who worked their was some class of lefty and came to shout at us)?

FFS, if this is a left wing, liberal bubble...
Click to expand...

The point is that because YOU have heard these things in the media doesn't mean that other people have. You have sought out the media where these things have been prevalent. The majority don't. And those who do find them have been primed to believe that they are Leftist propaganda.

The fact you even know who Geoff Norcott is demonstrates that you are probably in a unique 5% who pay attention to this stuff.

The people you are talking about here generally don't.
 
Vixen said:
Wait a minute. That Der Speigel article is way more hard-hitting than anything in the GRAUNIAD, with perhaps the exception of Polly Toynbee, Marina Hynde and John Grace who are given a free leash to be harsh...as long as they are amusing about it.
Click to expand...

Huh? And this?

Labour MPs must ignore Keir Starmer and vote against this rotten Tory Brexit deal
Manuel Cortes

The agreement will leave Britons worse off in every way. The opposition should not be helping the government to pass it

Sadly, the response from Labour’s frontbench and leader to this wretched deal has been abysmal. The white flag was hoisted when the ink on the deal was barely dry and before its full contents were known. The party’s leadership is also miserably failing to articulate what improvements an incoming Labour government would seek. A comprehensive customs union with the EU should be a no-brainer and the minimum needed to help protect the long-term future of our manufacturing jobs.

Labour is now attempting to pull off a trick that even the great Harry Houdini would have struggled with: voting for the rotten Tory deal while claiming it has nothing to do with us, guv. The public will simply not buy this and will blame Labour too for its shortcomings. The leader of the opposition should remember that the clue is in his title: Keir Starmer isn’t there to facilitate Tory misrule. And if he doesn’t give the lead, Labour MPs must break the whip and vote against the deal.
Click to expand...

This includes a call to action to people who can actually do something (Labour MPs) whereas you said such things don't happen in the UK press.

Link
 
Archie Gemmill Goal said:
It's obviously important to you that you are technically correct while missing the point. Good stuff.
Click to expand...

What are you expecting to happen?

At this stage, are you expecting anyone to be dropping leaflets over the population explaining that the red buses were actually porkies? Do you really think that anyone would find that Der Speipel article "hard hitting"? We've had years of this stuff by now and it has been the same old story.

Who thinks it is only a bunch of Guardian readers who have been told incessantly that Nigel Farage, Michael Gove, Boris Johnson, David Cameron and Theresa May have been pedalling ******** for years?

That was yesterday's fish and chip wrappings four years ago and almost every day since.

It is long past time that however ridiculous Brexit is, it has happened, it was voted on, there were general elections between then and now, and still people lined up to vote for successive Tories and UKIP and Brexit people.

I get it! It's all rigged! The elections are rigged! It's fake news! The media have done it all! Question Time was a stitch up! Blah blah blah!

What are you expecting at this point?
 
Airfix said:
Btw I would get rid of the Lords as they are not elected.
Cabinet ministers who are MPs can be sacked by their constituents.
Even the PM can be.
As such they are required to listen to constituents.
I've been able to talk to successive MPs in my constituency.

Any MP can propose legislation of their own to Parliament.

How was I supposed to be able to influence a Commissioner and talk to them about policy?
Click to expand...

I've always found this odd.
Why SHOULD a politician chosen by any means listen to the opinions of a single person?

If you want to influence a commisioner you could:
Start a petition and get enough people who share your opinion.
Form a political party and replace the Commisioner with one of your choice.
Start a newspaper and influence opinion that way.
Or any other way where you gather like minded people and if you get enough of them, your opinion starts having weight.

But the assumption that a personal opinion should matter in multinational negotiations is hubris at best imo.
 
Seriously, let's dissect this hard-hitting polemic that nobody has heard of in the UK:

That's why even the melancholy that shimmers in many comments on Brexit is getting on my nerves. I don't feel sadness, only anger: Britain has been captured by gambling liars, frivolous clowns and their claqueurs. They destroyed my Europe, to which the island belonged as well as France or Germany.
Click to expand...

Is this hard-hitting?

A drunken proletarian like Nigel Farage , leader of the Ukip party, has tabled countless lies about the European Union, but he would never have come anywhere near political influence had the Tories not used him in their power struggles. David Cameron , leader of the Conservatives, was so in love with his magical campaign moments that he felt that in a few weeks before the referendum he could make up for the many years he and his party had scapegoated the EU for everything is going wrong on the island, and that's a lot.
Click to expand...

Is it news to anyone that David Cameron campaigned poorly or that the Tories had been riven with anti-EU sentiment? Is this the kind of thing that nobody but a Guardian reader would have known?

When Boris Johnson finally had to decide where he wanted to be in this referendum, two texts were on his desk for publication: one for and one against Brexit. It would be as if Willy Brandt had two concepts in the drawer, one for Ostpolitik and one against it. Or Helmut Kohl would have had a plan for reunification and one against it. It's all so ridiculous.
Click to expand...

Is this something that nobody had heard about? Is it not common bloody knowledge?

Johnson sent a red bus across the country that lied so boldly in very large letters about the UK's EU contribution and the domestic NHS health care system that even Farage was too much
Click to expand...
.

I bet you never heard about that in the UK!

The invasion of millions of Muslims from Turkey and the Middle East was presented as a decided EU plan, and the risks of Brexit were systematically chattered down, because the EU is more dependent on Great Britain than the other way around. In truth, however, the UK is only the EU's fifth largest trading partner, while the EU is the UK's largest.
Click to expand...

More secrets that only the Germans knew about, presumably! I wish they had told us this! I wish someone had let us in on these things!


"Take back control," Johnson lied to the citizens, the British government only achieved: take back control of our little shovel and our little sand castle. Just before Christmas, when France closed the Channel Tunnel, the prime minister and his amphibians learned what it is worth when things get serious. After all, the fact that French oysters and champagne could become scarce is the only language that the island's elitist Johnsons understand, the Brexit agreement came about after all.
Click to expand...

Wow! Hard-hitting! Someone has pointed out that Boris de Pfeffel Bullingdon Club Classics at Oxford Etonian Johnson was some kind of posh bloke! Why has nobody told us this??? Why has it remained a secret? Was there a D notice?
 
Captain_Swoop said:
Cabinet Ministers and the PM are not elected by the public. House of Lords are not elected by the public.

What is your point?
Click to expand...
We've had this "debate" with both resident Brexiteers before; they continue to spout debunked lies about the "democratic deficit" that supposedly exists in the EU but refuse to address the problems in the UK system or the endemic racism, xenophobia and delusions of the Brexiteers.
 
Airfix said:
National governments in our case lost every EU election since 1994 and in my view had no remit to represent the public at EU level. The party which won the EU elections in those years should have been the ones to put forward the Commissioner.
Click to expand...
:rolleyes:
Perhaps the UK should abandon FPTP and embrace representative democracy?
 
Vixen said:
I see you have sucked up the Murdoch message.
Click to expand...
,
:rolleyes:
I've had the dubious privilege of meeting Corbyn and interacting with his followers.
I assume you're deliberately ignoring the rampant anti-Semitism in the Labour party?
 
angrysoba said:
What are you expecting at this point?
Click to expand...

What am I expecting or what am I asking to happen?

I expect that things will continue pretty much as is with a cabal of right-wing media outlets continuing to spread their poison to a largely uninterested and uneducated electorate and for people to continue to vote Tory at every election as they have done pretty much in perpetuity.

The BBC and other media will continue to promote 'useful idiots' in the interests of a distorted idea of balance and because they illicit responses from audiences that sensible, reasoned discussion doesn't. Question Time will continue to be Question Time and platform right-wing idiots without question.

And a few token lefty outlets with minimal audiences will continue to exist.

In other words business as usual.
 
catsmate said:
,
I assume you're deliberately ignoring the rampant anti-Semitism in the Labour party?
Click to expand...

Which of these is more rampant in your view?

Anti-Semitism in the Labour Party
Islamophobia in the Tory Party

What would you roughly estimate is the relative share of each of these topics in prominent media outlets?

The only reason anti-Semitism in the Labour Party became an issue is because the media made it one and gives the Tories a free ride on their bigotry.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom