d4m10n
Penultimate Amazing
Still looking for an answer to this one.
If Boudicca was ever male that might help us zone in what the concept of "male" ought to convey within the context of this discussion.
Cont: [ED] Discussion: Trans Women are not Women (Part 5)
- Thread starter Archie Gemmill Goal
- Start date
- Status
If Boudicca was ever male that might help us zone in what the concept of "male" ought to convey within the context of this discussion.
Boudicca90
Muse
The trans girls who beat her won fair and square, and now she is trying to run to the media and politicians to plead that it's "unfair" when she should just accept her loss and move on.
d4m10n
Penultimate Amazing
If there were no separate categories for women and men, then the competition would indeed have been "fair and square."
Boudicca90
Muse
No, I wasn't. I was assigned male at birth (AMAB), and for a while thought of myself as such when I didn't know any better. But it's clear to me that I was always female.
You can keep adding all the words you want to "Because I say so." It's not an answer to the actual question people are asking and you know it.
Why should you, a trans-woman be in the same class as female athletes but a straight-up traditional male not be? And an actual answer not just defining the categories the way you want them to be defined again and treated that as an answer.
Why is my schlong an obvious threat in a woman's bathroom but yours obviously isn't? Again without just defining it as "because I say so."
Why should you, a trans-woman be in the same class as female athletes but a straight-up traditional male not be? And an actual answer not just defining the categories the way you want them to be defined again and treated that as an answer.
Why is my schlong an obvious threat in a woman's bathroom but yours obviously isn't? Again without just defining it as "because I say so."
Last edited:
d4m10n
Penultimate Amazing
Okay, cool. What qualities or experiences or [fill in the blank] made it clear to you that you've always been female?
Last edited:
Boudicca90
Muse
Both of the trans girls have been on HRT, which minimizes biological advantages. And one of the girls, Terry Miller, was beaten by Chelsea Mitchell on more than one occasion. Mitchell is one of the girls (along with Soule) who has sided with the hate group Alliance Defending Freedom against Miller and Yearwood to prevent trans women/girls from competing with other women/girls.
https://www.outsports.com/2020/2/18/21140680/high-school-connecticut-terry-miller-chelsea-mitchell-track-andraya-yearwood-ciac-adf-transphobia
It helps to show that their case has no real merit and is only taken up by the far right for that reason. They are just trying to find any excuse possible for their loss other than they simply weren't as good as their competitors. And now they have allied themselves with people who use them to further erode our rights.
https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/trans-runner-daily-caller-terry-miller-andraya-yearwood-martina-navratilova/
d4m10n
Penultimate Amazing
This answer (while plausible and arguable in good faith) is incompatible with self-i.d. as the sole criterion for inclusion in women's sport.
Last edited:
Nice touch
Boudicca90
Muse
They shouldn't be forced to have hormone levels in a specific range by laws or some governing body. They are on HRT because they choose to be, not because they were forced to be.
There is a distinction there.
Exactly. Boudicca90 has previous argued that there should be no restrictions on transwomen participating. With all the biological disadvantages for female athletes.
Boudicca90
Muse
What? The right wing in this country is the driving force behind all of this.
Soule, Mitchell, and Smith were even given an award by the Connecticut Republican Party for their anti-trans crusade.
https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2020/02/republicans-honoring-3-students-suing-ban-transgender-athletes-girls-sports/
Just because some intolerant liberals have latched on as well doesn't negate that.
d4m10n
Penultimate Amazing
No one is saying they should be forced to do anything. The question was about eligibility criteria for a specific level of play, in a specific sport and league, for which the vast majority of people are already ineligible.
Last edited:
Sorry mate, but your humour value from obvious trolling has kind of hit a bit boring.
It was pretty funny while it lasted and I am not 100% you aren't actually trans.
But you kind of made the mistake of just saying things even my trans friends wouldn't be saying without at least some semblance of reality.
angrysoba
Philosophile
The distinction is that one part of your defence is contradicted by another.
You can't have your cake and eat it. For you the "minimization of biological advantages" is surely irrelevant. What you are advocating is essentially nothing other than that if, say, Usain Bolt declared he was now a she and wanted to compete in the women's 100m then so be it. The records would tumble in all kinds of races and that would be that, right?
Of course, it is easy to see that womens sports will be destroyed by this. If that is no biggie for you, then fine for you, but it is a biggie to others and their pointing this out does not make them hate-filled, does it?
Meadmaker
Unregistered
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2004
- Messages
- 29,033
I think we've reached the point where we have to apply the very popular ISF adage, "You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into."
Boudicca90 doesn't have an argument, just a set of assertions, and she is indifferent either to the logical inconsistencies of her position or the practical consequences of her position.
Boudicca90 doesn't have an argument, just a set of assertions, and she is indifferent either to the logical inconsistencies of her position or the practical consequences of her position.
angrysoba
Philosophile
I don't think it is an ISF adage. It is a popularly used cliche that makes no sense if you think about how many of your own views you have had since childhood that you used reason to no longer believe.
Did you reason yourself into belief in the tooth fairy, Santa Claus, God etc...? Most people were brought up to believe such things and only later were reasoned out of them.
Meadmaker
Unregistered
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2004
- Messages
- 29,033
Good point about the Tooth Fairy.
And yes, that adage didn't originate here, but I've heard it here more often than anywhere else.
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
The biological advantages of people Assigned Male At Birth. It's funny how often those two things correlate.
- Status