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Trump's Coup d'état.

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Even if Congress did vote against confirming the election, it would change nothing. Their confirmation is like the losing candidate's concession: a tradition with no effect on real-world results. The person who got elected still got elected whether they confirm it or not.
 
Delvo said:
Even if Congress did vote against confirming the election, it would change nothing. Their confirmation is like the losing candidate's concession: a tradition with no effect on real-world results. The person who got elected still got elected whether they confirm it or not.
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That's debatable. There is a legal process which is cumbersome and other than once in the 1800s has always been a formality.
 
acbytesla said:
That's debatable. There is a legal process which is cumbersome and other than once in the 1800s has always been a formality.
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I can only say that the American electoral process is a hell of a thing.

A lot of the details are historical and weird, and worse, perhaps entrenched.
 
eerok said:
I can only say that the American electoral process is a hell of a thing.

A lot of the details are historical and weird, and worse, perhaps entrenched.
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I didn't realize all these machinations. I knew about the EC but not this arcane process which must be changed. I'd also like to see some laws preventing this insanity after the election. Like a way to remove a POTUS from power earlier than January 20th. Also making the Electoral College vote itself as final. We have modern transportation and modern communications.
 
Like making the result a popular vote, not via some arcane indirect method like the EC.

And making an independent federal body responsible for tallying and proclaiming the election result, including fielding legal challenges, via a set of simple, non-corruptible rules. They should also seat the next president and oversee any transition so it happens in a timely manner.

And once any result is resolved according to the rules, that it is final. No further correspondence entered into. Stick a fork in it, it's done. The final hooter has sounded, the last pitch thrown, the end. Whine all you like, that's the outcome. Courts will throw out all cases brought after that deadline.

And once the election is over, the incumbent president immediately loses all but ceremonial powers until the next president is inaugurated, even if it is his second term (with some exceptions like it being war time, etc).
 
acbytesla said:
I didn't realize all these machinations. I knew about the EC but not this arcane process which must be changed. I'd also like to see some laws preventing this insanity after the election. Like a way to remove a POTUS from power earlier than January 20th. Also making the Electoral College vote itself as final. We have modern transportation and modern communications.
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I think any changes here would be very hard to make. The GOP love confusion too much. Free and fair elections, a clear and logical result -- they know that they can't compete with this kind of thing.
 
eerok said:
I think any changes here would be very hard to make. The GOP love confusion too much. Free and fair elections, a clear and logical result -- they know that they can't compete with this kind of thing.
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I'm not so sure. I'd bet most of the GOP politicians hate this. They feel like they are between a rock and a hard place.
 
Norman Alexander said:
Like making the result a popular vote, not via some arcane indirect method like the EC.

And making an independent federal body responsible for tallying and proclaiming the election result, including fielding legal challenges, via a set of simple, non-corruptible rules. They should also seat the next president and oversee any transition so it happens in a timely manner.

And once any result is resolved according to the rules, that it is final. No further correspondence entered into. Stick a fork in it, it's done. The final hooter has sounded, the last pitch thrown, the end. Whine all you like, that's the outcome. Courts will throw out all cases brought after that deadline.

And once the election is over, the incumbent president immediately loses all but ceremonial powers until the next president is inaugurated, even if it is his second term (with some exceptions like it being war time, etc).
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Something like that.
 
acbytesla said:
I'm not so sure. I'd bet most of the GOP politicians hate this. They feel like they are between a rock and a hard place.
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Right now they do, but I bet they've made a mental note: "... let's try a bit less crazy on the populist megalomaniac next time ..."
 
After reviewing the available evidence the Chairman of the Georgia state senate’s Judiciary Committee has issued a report calling the election results “untrustworthy” and demanding that the election certification be rescinded.
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Georgia State Senator William T. Ligon, Chairman of the Election Law subcommittee, reached that conclusion after reviewing the recount process, the audit process, current investigations taking place, and litigation that is moving forward. His Subcommittee also heard testimonies from witnesses during an open hearing at the Georgia State Capitol on Thursday, December 3, 2020.
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Reported here: https://behindtheblack.com/behind-t...tion-untrustworthy-and-should-be-decertified/

Full report here folks:
http://www.senatorligon.com/THE_FINAL REPORT.PDF

What happens now? (If anything?)
 
eerok said:
Right now they do, but I bet they've made a mental note: "... let's try a bit less crazy on the populist megalomaniac next time ..."
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I see Trump as a bit of a perfect storm following two decades of insane right wing radio. Add in that Trump is a disinformation dynamo. There needs to be a political revolution that deals with this insanity or America is doomed as a democracy. The black hole of disinformation and gaslighting can not be good. I

'm also hoping to find a way to crush the Christian Nationalism. We're on that brink where religion on one hand is losing its influence on everyone and yet it has never been stronger politically. I hope this makes sense.
 
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eerok said:
I can only say that the American electoral process is a hell of a thing.

A lot of the details are historical and weird, and worse, perhaps entrenched.
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Yeah, it's like, "Hey, let's make one election into three elections! That'll work out great!"

You have regular citizens vote for Electoral College voters, who then vote for the President, and then Congress votes to see if they agree with the vote of the EC....
 
acbytesla said:
Trust me. I despise McConnell. But he knows the game. He has the goal of protecting his Senators. The last thing he wants is a public floor fight that hurts and gains the GOP nothing. I'd even bet he might make a back door deal with Schumer to end this quickly.

The Dems could force a roll call is a Senator tried this stunt. Great for fundraising and dividing the opposition. I can see the ads in two years.
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The Republicans did that with impeachment. They wanted the Democrats visible voting for impeachment because they thought it was a winning issue for them. I don't know if the negative ads were ever made, though. I think by the time the election rolled around, so much had changed in public perception that the vote to impeach didn't seem nearly so bad, except in the eyes of the True Believers who were going to vote Republican anyway.
 
Meadmaker said:
The Republicans did that with impeachment. They wanted the Democrats visible voting for impeachment because they thought it was a winning issue for them. I don't know if the negative ads were ever made, though. I think by the time the election rolled around, so much had changed in public perception that the vote to impeach didn't seem nearly so bad, except in the eyes of the True Believers who were going to vote Republican anyway.
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Trump is calling for every one to do what he wants. Some are humoring him and some might be serious. But his allies in Congress fought tooth and nail to keep the stimulus payments tiny. And just today Trump demanded they be $2,000 a citizen. Three times the $600 that the GOP forced though. Trump wants the public on his side.
 
acbytesla said:
Nothing. This is political. This is six Republican pols whining. The Electoral vote has been cast. There is no mechanism of rescinding certification. None.
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That's pretty much what I assumed. But it does seem to be a real report of a real committee where in they questioned real witnesses under oath.. Does the state senate just ignore it? Or what?
 
Gord_in_Toronto said:
That's pretty much what I assumed. But it does seem to be a real report of a real committee where in they questioned real witnesses under oath.. Does the state senate just ignore it? Or what?
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It's none of those things. The Georgia State House hasn't been in session since June. Most States haven't been during the pandemic.

Now that doesn't mean that 6 Republicans didn't hold some hearings on their own. But we have no idea if they questioned witnesses directly or whether they were things written on a Facebook post. We certainly don't know if they were deposed by lawyers or if their testimony was under oath and subject to perjury charges.

Sure, their report looks official. I assure you that it is not. Where are the minority members signatures?
 
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