Trump's Coup d'état.

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Mader Levap said:
Oh, certain things can and will be done. But they will involve a lot of violence and spilled blood. They will call it second civil war, but it will be more like Troubles in Ireland.

This is where outcome is uncertain and not set in stone. But yes, I consider events leading to this state of affairs inevitable.

Unless you have some proposition on how to stop... no, not stop, reverse USA's rot. I literally see no way out of that.

Only theoretical way I can think would be dems winning elections many, many times in row with full control (required due to Republican permaobstruction). And that is impossible for various reasons, some legitimate, other being result of anti-democratic shenanigans of Republicans.

I am open to consider any other scenario that makes USA more democratic (whatever that even means, lol) while avoiding bloodshed. I won't hold breath, though.


Yeah, yeah, if we do X then terrorists already won. :rolleyes:
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If Dems win the 2 Georgia seats...

1. Packing SCOTUS 'normally' will come back to bite them. That's why I propose placing ALL registered voters on the court.

2. Create two new states -' DC and Puerto Rico. This solves the senate, for a while at least.

These two actions would be hard if not impossible to undo in the future.
 
Mader Levap said:
Oh, certain things can and will be done. But they will involve a lot of violence and spilled blood. They will call it second civil war, but it will be more like Troubles in Ireland.

This is where outcome is uncertain and not set in stone. But yes, I consider events leading to this state of affairs inevitable.

Unless you have some proposition on how to stop... no, not stop, reverse USA's rot. I literally see no way out of that.

Only theoretical way I can think would be dems winning elections many, many times in row with full control (required due to Republican permaobstruction). And that is impossible for various reasons, some legitimate, other being result of anti-democratic shenanigans of Republicans.

I am open to consider any other scenario that makes USA more democratic (whatever that even means, lol) while avoiding bloodshed. I won't hold breath, though.


Yeah, yeah, if we do X then terrorists already won. :rolleyes:
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I don't think we meet the criteria for that kind of widespread violence and civil war.

We're plenty angry, but the first civil war involved the dissolution of the free labor at the center of the southern state's entire economies. Our current differences are wide, but they don't involve such a massive imminent loss. You might say that the need for universal healthcare is comparably pressing, but its not the people who want healthcare who are likely to secede or start massive violence to get it, and from the other end, the argument is "It will cost too much" which isn't a great rallying cry to shout while bayonetting your cousin.

We are as a country, too prosperous and comfortable for a civil war any time soon. Even those on bread lines with no job aren't so hopeless that a life of shooting and trenches looks appetizing.

We've also since eliminated a lot of lead pipes and paint. So while we've got our share of crazies, we're running low on the kind of agression needed.

I expect political violence to exist, but to be fairly minimal.

The GOP is fickle, and I'm not sure their (fairly recent) puppy love for Trump will last. Even within Trump's term they've turned on football and Fox News when directed to, and they did it on a dime! The issues they may look like they're ready to kill for may not even be memories a year from now. Trump who?
 
varwoche said:
If Dems win the 2 Georgia seats...

1. Packing SCOTUS 'normally' will come back to bite them. That's why I propose placing ALL registered voters on the court.

2. Create two new states -' DC and Puerto Rico. This solves the senate, for a while at least.

These two actions would be hard if not impossible to undo in the future.
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Yes, that's a good call.

Besides adding 4 more Senators It would add 7 more Congressmen.

But I would do something more drastic. I would make the House more representative by increasing the number of Congressional districts to the size of the least populous state. The more populous states would all see their representation grow. California's number of Representatives would increase from 53 to 69, Texas from 36 to 52, NY's from 27 to 34, Florida 29 to 37, Illinois would increase by 2, Pennsylvania would increase by 4.

The point is urban America needs to take back the representation stolen from them. If you do this, you make serious power grab the GOP can never take back. It' can be done with full control of the House, Senate and Presidency. It's also totally fair.
 
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175 years.
That how long the Scientific American magazine went without commenting on an election.
For the New England Journal of Medicine is was 208 years.

When Pence was running the daily phone briefing with the governors, President Trump said, “Mike, don’t call the governors of Washington and Michigan because they are not giving my enough respect.” In a rare display of backbone, Pence ignored the order.
But let’s talk about that. Trump was willing to unapologetically withhold potential life-saving information because two governors were willing to say that Trump was not perfect. How bat-**** crazy is that?

We are talking about the guy who said the problem with our COVID test results was caused by doing too much testing.

Yeah, I’m going to need to see a lot more evidence before I can say the two parties in 2020 are the same. A lot.
 
ahhell said:
Lets not forget the outrage storm over his strapping a dog to his station wagon in the 80s back when I was riding around in the back of my parents truck in much less safe conditions.
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Did you really just compare the actions you chose to take as a teenager who thought he would live forever to those a dog was forced to endure with no choice and claim it was somehow similar? I mean, the dog was forced to be on the roof for a 12 hour trip and apparently had to resort to crapping in the cage. How long was your pickup ride, and did they take you through the car wash to clean you up after?
 
Earlier today I saw a video of some people claiming to be their state's real "electors", showing up to try to enter their votes for Trump in the Electoral College. One of them kept trying to talk the guard into letting them in. He kept throwing out semi-legal-sounding terminologibberish and letters & numbers of subparagraphs & subsections & articles from one code/charter or another, trying to fake-lawyer the guard into submission.

And I just realized where I'd heard that kind of thing before. It's the "Freemen On The Land". It's been a long time since I've heard anything from them, but now the Trumpers have started acting just like them. If the law of the land doesn't give you what you want (this time), just make up your own (this time)... and throw it at people in a flurry.
 
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Why I think Biden should take office.

Either
(1) he won the election fairly

(2) he was able to put between 1 and 3 million votes into the system without leaving a shred of evidence or having a single participant stepping forward to confess. And he did that after Trump had a 4-year lead time to harden the election system. Anyone who can do that has skills.
 
Ladewig said:
Why I think Biden should take office.

Either
(1) he won the election fairly

(2) he was able to put between 1 and 3 million votes into the system without leaving a shred of evidence or having a single participant stepping forward to confess. And he did that after Trump had a 4-year lead time to harden the election system. Anyone who can do that has skills.
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Jesus Christ, you can't argue with logic like that! I expect that all opposition to him shall disappear by morning!
 
Delvo said:
Earlier today I saw a video of some people claiming to be their state's real "electors", showing up to try to enter their votes for Trump in the Electoral College. One of them kept trying to talk the guard into letting them in. He kept throwing out semi-legal-sounding terminologibberish and letters & numbers of subparagraphs & subsections & articles from one code/charter or another, trying to fake-lawyer the guard into submission.

And I just realized where I'd heard that kind of thing before. It's the "Freemen On The Land". It's been a long time since I've heard anything from them, but now the Trumpers have started acting just like them. If the law of the land doesn't give you what you want (this time), just make up your own (this time)... and throw it at people in a flurry.
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'

Was that in Arizona? The electors there are even actual Trump electors. They are a group called AZ Protect the Vote, which doesn't even appear to be a real group other than for this stunt. They claim to represent the "sovereign citizens of the Great State of Arizona".
 
Ladewig said:
Why I think Biden should take office.

Either
(1) he won the election fairly

(2) he was able to put between 1 and 3 million votes into the system without leaving a shred of evidence or having a single participant stepping forward to confess. And he did that after Trump had a 4-year lead time to harden the election system. Anyone who can do that has skills.
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It had occurred to me that anyone who believes the election was stolen would have to accept one of two premises.

(1) The Democrats are geniuses who pulled off the greatest election fraud in history, in the most closely watched election in history, while leaving no trace of evidence that would stand up in a court of law.

or, if they can't believe Democrats are that smart, then they must accept
(2) The Republicans are incompetent bunglers on the level of Inspector Clouseau, and let a bunch of stupid Democrats steal an election from right under their noses.

In fact, it just occurred to me that "Inspector Clouseau" would be a perfect new nickname for Rudy Giuliani.
 
rdaneel said:
It had occurred to me that anyone who believes the election was stolen would have to accept one of two premises.

(1) The Democrats are geniuses who pulled off the greatest election fraud in history, in the most closely watched election in history, while leaving no trace of evidence that would stand up in a court of law.

or, if they can't believe Democrats are that smart, then they must accept
(2) The Republicans are incompetent bunglers on the level of Inspector Clouseau, and let a bunch of stupid Democrats steal an election from right under their noses.

In fact, it just occurred to me that "Inspector Clouseau" would be a perfect new nickname for Rudy Giuliani.
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It's classic conspiracy theory stuff. The conspirators are simultaneously blundering fools who left a trail that anyone can see, and evil geniuses covering their tracks perfectly. The conspirators' crimes are easily demonstrated in a youtube video, but judge after judge declares there is insufficient evidence to even hold a serious hearing on the case.
 
If all this is a conspiracy, does anyone had the idea to blame Trump for being so stupid, inept and unable to prevent it from happening in the first place - while he was (still is) POTUS?

He even talked about it for month. So why didn't he prevent it?
What a lazy, lame and unable POTUS is that?

Please, anyone ask him and his cult!
 
carlosy said:
If all this is a conspiracy, does anyone had the idea to blame Trump for being so stupid, inept and unable to prevent it from happening in the first place - while he was (still is) POTUS?

He even talked about it for month. So why didn't he prevent it?
What a lazy, lame and unable POTUS is that?

Please, anyone ask him and his cult!
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Talked about it for years. He started complaining in 2016
 
Ladewig said:
Talked about it for years. He started complaining in 2016
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Yes, you're right.

So, let's spin it.
He and his followers think that he's such a genius? Were was his ingenuity to prevent this from happening? No one blaming him for that? He swore an oath to prevent harm from the USA. He failed big time, right?

He is a loser - either way!

We need an investigation into the POTUS and his staff!
 
Darat said:
And don’t forget he said the 2016 election was fraudulent, after all he won the popular vote.... if you take out the 3 million illegal votes.
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Exactly

He even described the mechanism for voting illegally:
“Sometimes they go to their car, put on a different hat, put on a different shirt, come in and vote again.”

In that same interview he stressed the need for formal voter ID and went so far as to repeat one of his previous nutty claims. Specifically, that people need an ID to buy breakfast cereal.
 
rdaneel said:
It had occurred to me that anyone who believes the election was stolen would have to accept one of two premises.

(1) The Democrats are geniuses who pulled off the greatest election fraud in history, in the most closely watched election in history, while leaving no trace of evidence that would stand up in a court of law.

or, if they can't believe Democrats are that smart, then they must accept
(2) The Republicans are incompetent bunglers on the level of Inspector Clouseau, and let a bunch of stupid Democrats steal an election from right under their noses.

In fact, it just occurred to me that "Inspector Clouseau" would be a perfect new nickname for Rudy Giuliani.
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It's neither. It's that the courts, etc. are packed with Deep State operatives. Under a fair court system, the cases would have won. That they didn't is evidence that the courts are corrupt, not that the cases don't have merit.
 
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