Cont: Trans Women are not Women 4

[Ziggurat]

Which is why they are only prescribed to kids who seem to have a persistent transgender identity.

Are they? What are the criteria for evaluating that? How do we know those criteria are good?

No medical procedure is perfectly reversible. I don't think anyone is claiming that.

That's where you're wrong, plenty of people claimed exactly that. In fact, the NHS in the UK used to say that on their website, although that's thankfully now changed. You can still find other sources making exactly that claim, though. For example:

https://www.gendergp.com/puberty-blockers-are-reversible/

 

[Meadmaker]

I can't imagine Elliot Page causing much of a tizzy anywhere. Oh, sure, there will be people on Twitter talking about it, but there's people on Twitter talking about anything.

However, to the extent that there is any tizzy in a teapot about it, I think the interesting thing will be what happens when he continues to play a woman in the next season of The Umbrella Academy. I know there were really bad vibes sent out when actresses portrayed transwomen. So, here we will have a "man", portraying a woman. Will there be outrage that the show fails to accept Elliott's transgender status by continuing to have him portray a female?

Or, is he taking hormones or otherwise transitioning, such that his appearance will no longer fit the part that he is playing? If the producers replace him because of that will they be accused of discrimination?

Enquiring minds want to know......although I doubt that the rest of us will work up any energy about it to do more than make a forum post here or there.

 

[Emily's Cat]

The whole point of puberty blockers is to delay permanent, life altering changes to their bodies until they're older. And obviously "puberty blockers" have to be used before puberty.

The problem is that those blockers do harm of their own, and have long-term side-effects. Including the delay and derailment of the mental and emotional maturity that occurs as a result of puberty.

So... you take a child, who is not an adult and does not have the ability to consent to all manner of things because they are not an adult and are not considered mentally mature enough to understand the consequences of consent... and you delay puberty until they reach a number-of-years threshold... and just gloss over the fact that because they haven't experienced puberty, they are STILL not mentally mature enough to understand the consequences of consent.

In addition to the long-term health issues of delayed puberty, which gets swept under the rug.

 

[Emily's Cat]

I think the news is still too fresh for actual articles to be published yet, but the normal transphobic coalition of right wing reactionaries and TERFS are having a field day with it on Twitter. I'm sure there will be pearl clutching articles coming out shortly.

Serious question here.

Let's take two groups:
1) women on social media who express cruel opinions against transgender ideology
2) transgender people on social media who express cruel opinions against women

Why is it that group #1 gets treated as if they're widely representative and a serious threat to trans-people, whereas group #2 gets treated as if they're total outliers who aren't even remotely representative and don't present any threat to women at all?

 

[Emily's Cat]

The problem is that the use of puberty blockers itself is likely to be a permanent, life altering change. The use of puberty blockers has sometimes been described as "reversible", but there's actually no real evidence that this is true, and plenty of reason to suspect otherwise.

My god-daughter has Kallman Syndrome. Her pituitary gland completely failed to trigger puberty at all. Her doctor, one of a very few in the world with research specific to Kallman, was very clear about the long-term dangers of puberty not occurring naturally... and the risk that occurs if they it is delayed beyond about age 15.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

I can't imagine Elliot Page causing much of a tizzy anywhere. Oh, sure, there will be people on Twitter talking about it, but there's people on Twitter talking about anything.

However, to the extent that there is any tizzy in a teapot about it, I think the interesting thing will be what happens when he continues to play a woman in the next season of The Umbrella Academy. I know there were really bad vibes sent out when actresses portrayed transwomen. So, here we will have a "man", portraying a woman. Will there be outrage that the show fails to accept Elliott's transgender status by continuing to have him portray a female?

Or, is he taking hormones or otherwise transitioning, such that his appearance will no longer fit the part that he is playing? If the producers replace him because of that will they be accused of discrimination?

Enquiring minds want to know......although I doubt that the rest of us will work up any energy about it to do more than make a forum post here or there.

I imagine it will get the usual amount of coverage in the reactionary press as any of their other "trans panic" stories. People like Matt Walsh and Steven Crowder have already made it the topic of their daily shows. I suppose that's as much of a tizzy of any of these stories ever get, just whining and trans panic from the right wing shock jocks and trash tabloids like DailyWire.

I suspect it may not have much staying power simply because the daily news is very much crowded with Trump's electoral fraud CT claims. If it were a slower news cycle, I suspect this would be all the right wing talking heads could talk about.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Which is why they are only prescribed to kids who seem to have a persistent transgender identity. The blockers give them more to time to think about what other treatments they will seek, but this stuff is only prescribed to them when it seems pretty clear what choice they are going to make.

Have you been keeping up with what's going on at the Tavistock Clinic at all? Because I don't think your assumption is borne out by actual practice.

 

[The Atheist]

However, to the extent that there is any tizzy in a teapot about it, I think the interesting thing will be what happens when he continues to play a woman in the next season of The Umbrella Academy. I know there were really bad vibes sent out when actresses portrayed transwomen. So, here we will have a "man", portraying a woman. Will there be outrage that the show fails to accept Elliott's transgender status by continuing to have him portray a female?

Excellent point!

 

[William Parcher]

Ellen Page was previously known as a lesbian, but not anymore. This person is now a transman. Their sexual interest would be females.

 

[William Parcher]

I read that Page is going to continue playing the roles of females in spite of coming out now.

I remember this actor from Inception.

 

[d4m10n]

I mean neither of those things, but thanks for trying.

Thanks for the helpful disambiguation.

 

[Ziggurat]

Thanks for the helpful disambiguation.

I’m not trying to be helpful, because you aren’t trying to have an honest conversation.

 

[d4m10n]

Well now that's some ********. Thanks for playing.

 

[8enotto]

Actors and actresses of all ilks barely cause a scene in this type of discussion.
It's a profession where orientation or chosen gender is hardly a factor.
It's all about the role fitting the person.

Music is another area where orientation or preference isn't a big factor. Many of the better talents are or were gay, nobody really seems to care.

 

[The Atheist]

This person is now a transman. Their sexual interest would be females.

That doesn't always follow, and I know several trans women who are self-described lesbians.

 

[Ziggurat]

Well now that's some ********. Thanks for playing.

That’s how I felt about your first post to me.

 

[d4m10n]

That’s how I felt about your first post to me.

Hurrah for feelings! Let's all have some.

 

[theprestige]

That doesn't always follow, and I know several trans women who are self-described lesbians.

It follows in Paige's case, since Ellen Paige had already come out as being sexually attracted to women. Having now come out as transsexual, it follows that Elliot Paige is heterosexual. Of course this depends on the assumption that he didn't toggle his sexual orientation when she toggled her gender identity.

I guess another explanation is that he was never actually a lesbian. What he originally perceived as "I want to sleep with women" turned out to be "I want to be a man."

But I don't know if that's actually a thing that sometimes happens during a transition journey.

 

[William Parcher]

It's mind bending.

If Page takes on a female lover is that person to be heterosexual or lesbian or trans or what?

I know you could say who cares, but it's a curious thing.

 

[d4m10n]

If Page takes on a female lover is that person to be heterosexual or lesbian or trans or what?

I'd've thought that "lesbians" were female-bodied humans attracted to other female-bodied humans, but WTF do I know? Language is usage, and I'm decades out from the dating game.