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Allegations of Fraud in 2020 US Election

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smartcooky said:
LOL alright, what's to infiltrate?
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Was it your sources that led you to believe Antifa people dont talk to each other on their cell phones?

Joe Oltmann told Sidney Powell that he was on an Antifa conference call, after he "infiltrated" in order to expose corrupt journalists who were attacking his Colorado business.
 
ChrisBFRPKY said:
It also appears that to you goal posts have wheels.
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Oh I ever so do love it when the Proudly Wrong learn the name of logical fallacy but not how it actually works and start treating it like a magic word to use when they are arguing into a corner.

You have no goalpost because you have point.
 
Bubba said:
Was it your sources that led you to believe Antifa people dont talk to each other on their cell phones?

Joe Oltmann told Sidney Powell that he was on an Antifa conference call, after he "infiltrated" in order to expose corrupt journalists who were attacking his Colorado business.
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Are you still considering Sydney Powell to be anything but a complete nutcase?

For pete's sake, not even Rudy could take her seriously, yet here you are gobbling up everything she says!
 
Perfect example of easily fooled and believing Antifa people dont use cell phones for planning:



Foggy of the Fogbow said:
Bubba, please help me.

I want to join Antifa. I am as anti-fascist as they come. I hate fascists.

But I can't find a phone number, or an address of their HQ, or even a website that will let me join Antifa. Everybody says there is no such organization, just a bunch of people who hate fascism, like I do.

Is there an organization? If so, how do I join? I'm willing to learn the secret handshake!
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ChrisBFRPKY said:
If you're trying to say "this is an allegation of fraud" I agree.
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I would consider "fraud" to be an instance in which votes were counted that were never actually cast. This is an allegation that votes were counted which were actually cast by actual people, in accordance with the wishes of those actual people, and within the time frame in which those votes should have been cast, but that due to a technical issue in the way in which the votes were submitted the appellants are arguing that these votes should not be counted. That's not an allegation of voting fraud; it's an allegation of improper procedure.

Dave
 
Dave Rogers said:
I would consider "fraud" to be an instance in which votes were counted that were never actually cast. This is an allegation that votes were counted which were actually cast by actual people, in accordance with the wishes of those actual people, and within the time frame in which those votes should have been cast, but that due to a technical issue in the way in which the votes were submitted the appellants are arguing that these votes should not be counted. That's not an allegation of voting fraud; it's an allegation of improper procedure.

Dave
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Not even I can muster a pedantic attack against that.
 
Bubba said:
Was it your sources that led you to believe Antifa people dont talk to each other on their cell phones?

Joe Oltmann told Sidney Powell that he was on an Antifa conference call, after he "infiltrated" in order to expose corrupt journalists who were attacking his Colorado business.
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Seriously Bubba. When do you recognize that Sydney Powell is a loon?

This reminds me so much of Joe McCarthy it's amazing. McCarthy started out making wild baseless accusations against liberals and then anyone who had the temerity to challenge him. He ruined a lot of lives.

But his accusations grew crazier and crazier. He eventually crashed and burned when he began to direct his crazy baseless accusations at the people he was originally allied with.
 
jsfisher said:
Curious. The Emergency Motion alleges that the motion to file a second amended complaint was denied soley on the basis of undue delay.

I read Judge Brann's decision differently.
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I read it differently as well. Which seems rather clear because the reasons Judge Brann gave for denying the motion to amend were numbered. There are three numbers. Three reasons. Not four reasons. Not Four Seasons. Three reasons.

Brann denied the motion to amend because it delay would interfere with the deadlines to certify election results. And because plaintiffs had plenty of opportunity to amend and even had already done so.

And because the the reasons to amend was because Rudy took out a bunch of stuff from the original complaint, but when he got into oral arguments in court it became clear from questions by the court that taking that stuff out seriously diminished his argument (although there were multiple other problems with his claims as well) so he wanted to amend the complaint so that he could make the arguments that he then realized he needed to make. The court told him he needed to file a motion to amend.

The third reasons was the Brann considered not only the amended complaint but also the original complaint, which is what the "Second Amendment Complaint" would have been if it was allowed.

It appears that Rudy is trying to approval to amend the complaint so that he can make a completely different complaint now that he knows all the problems the court had with his original and first amended complaint. That's like playing a video game and getting to a save point and then losing and then going back the save point to try again after knowing what you did wrong and doing it again and again until maybe you don't lose.

Rudy is basically saying, "I appeal for a mulligan because I am a bat-nuts crazy incompetent lawyer who needs to make a further fool of myself, if it may please the court."
 
Dave Rogers said:
And does he trust Pence not to stab him in the back? A promise of a pardon from Biden while he's still President would be very much more secure than the hope of Pence or the SCOTUS deferring to him once he isn't.
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Trump's best chance of a legally binding pardon would be to feign a medical issue, invoke the 25th amendment to declare himself temporarily unable to fulfill the duties of the office which would making Pence Acting President, have Pence grant a pardon, then declare himself once again able to fulfill the duties of the office and resume as President.

That would be technically legally binding under the Constitution. The Supreme Court could call shenanigans, but they would basically be ruling against the letter of the Constitution on the grounds the pardon doesn't count because it is a bunch of funny business.

A pardon from Biden would be better because it would be legally uncontroversial. And Biden would very likely keep such a promise. But getting that promise would be difficult. And Trump hasn't even been asking for it.
 
DevilsAdvocate said:
I read it differently as well. Which seems rather clear because the reasons Judge Brann gave for denying the motion to amend were numbered. There are three numbers. Three reasons. Not four reasons. Not Four Seasons. Three reasons.
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I would think, too, Trump, et al., would need to appeal the complaint being dismissed (with prejudice), not just the motion to amend being denied (as moot). You cannot really amend your pleadings when you pleadings have already been permanently dismissed.
 
DevilsAdvocate said:
Trump's best chance of a legally binding pardon would be to feign a medical issue, invoke the 25th amendment to declare himself temporarily unable to fulfill the duties of the office which would making Pence Acting President, have Pence grant a pardon, then declare himself once again able to fulfill the duties of the office and resume as President.

That would be technically legally binding under the Constitution. The Supreme Court could call shenanigans, but they would basically be ruling against the letter of the Constitution on the grounds the pardon doesn't count because it is a bunch of funny business.

A pardon from Biden would be better because it would be legally uncontroversial. And Biden would very likely keep such a promise. But getting that promise would be difficult. And Trump hasn't even been asking for it.
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Biden is not going to pardon Trump. He's probably going to discourage Congress from launching investigations into Trump. Then leave it entirely up to the DOJ and the States.
 
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The Don said:
As opposed to an individual, or state legislature deciding to ignore the results of the vote and merely voiding the results or installing their own electors ?

I guess a key difference is that, AFAIK, while Republicans are openly discussing the latter, encouraged by President Trump no Democratic state governors are considering taking steps to prevent it.
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Ouch!
 
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