General UK politics

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So, we now know that shouting and swearing at people isn't bullying and is actually OK and that anyone who's offended by that is some class of weakling...

All round to the House of Commons to shout and swear at as many members of the Cabinet as we can, 'cos it's obviously OK to do so and in no way bullying or offensive or insulting?
 
Boris considers the matter 'closed'.

Staff that were bullied have gone, the man in charge of investigating and reporting on Ministerial conduct is gone.

So lets move on and put it all behind us.
 
Our PM Boris Johnson has

- backed virus reg breaking Dominic Cummings
- voted to break international law over Brexit
- voted not to feed vulnerable children during school holidays
- backed a MP who has consistently bullied her staff whilst a minister in various departments.

He has no moral compass and no legitimacy. He is scum.
 
It is odd how people get sucked into Johnson's chumocracy, not realising that it is unlikely to last. Look at how Cummings has gone and he seemed totally secure. His record with wives and partners should tell everyone he is fickle and a user.
 
The message is clear, as long as you’re loyal to the leader you can do what you want and not fear being sacked.

That’s how Britain now works.
 
Squeegee Beckenheim said:
Sir Alex Allan was prevented by the government from interviewing a key witness in his probe into Patel's behaviour
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It's SOP in this country for complaints made about bullying bosses: I and at least one other senior colleague made complaints about one particular manager of ours, who habitually bullied and harassed staff; the "investigations" did not show any sign of interviewing most of the staff who could corroborate the substance of the complaints and so did not find anything...

It's straight out of the standard English (is the same true in Scotland, Wales or NI? I've never worked in anyof those) HR playbook. Close ranks around the bosses, leave as much out of the "investigation" as you can, spin the findings your way.
 
Carrot Flower King said:
So, we now know that shouting and swearing at people isn't bullying and is actually OK and that anyone who's offended by that is some class of weakling...

All round to the House of Commons to shout and swear at as many members of the Cabinet as we can, 'cos it's obviously OK to do so and in no way bullying or offensive or insulting?
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Come, come. Let's all form a square around the Pritster.
 
The Don said:
Another case of "one rule for us and another for them".

Priti Patel broke ministerial code on behaviour. She should have resigned but has received Boris Johnson's full backing so standards advisor has resigned instead. :mad:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55016076
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Yes in the public sector bullying is one of the things that one can be instantly suspended for. Certainly her behaviour should have been addressed when she was earlier in her career. But I wonder if there is a racist element to this? How much do you think this is because as an Asian woman she is expected to behave in a submissive way and if she swears and shouts this has more of an impact and is less forgiven than if a man behaved this way. Mo Mowlam, a labour minister shouted and swore but this was 'endearing'. John Reid was regarded as blunt spoken. Both were white working class, was bad language and shouting culturally acceptable for them but not her? There is a phenomenon that white men get away with things that ethnic minorities are disciplined for. was her behaviour that unusual? How many ministers rant and rave at times? It took me ten seconds to find blunt spoken John Reid, and I know from having a friend who worked for MM that multiple complaints were made by her civil servants to Tony Blair about her behaviour.
 
Carrot Flower King said:
It's SOP in this country for complaints made about bullying bosses: I and at least one other senior colleague made complaints about one particular manager of ours, who habitually bullied and harassed staff; the "investigations" did not show any sign of interviewing most of the staff who could corroborate the substance of the complaints and so did not find anything...

It's straight out of the standard English (is the same true in Scotland, Wales or NI? I've never worked in anyof those) HR playbook. Close ranks around the bosses, leave as much out of the "investigation" as you can, spin the findings your way.
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The purpose of HR, as explained by head of HR in one company, is to prevent the company being sued for breaches of employment law. Everything else is window dressing.
 
Planigale said:
Yes in the public sector bullying is one of the things that one can be instantly suspended for. Certainly her behaviour should have been addressed when she was earlier in her career. But I wonder if there is a racist element to this? How much do you think this is because as an Asian woman she is expected to behave in a submissive way and if she swears and shouts this has more of an impact and is less forgiven than if a man behaved this way. Mo Mowlam, a labour minister shouted and swore but this was 'endearing'. John Reid was regarded as blunt spoken. Both were white working class, was bad language and shouting culturally acceptable for them but not her? There is a phenomenon that white men get away with things that ethnic minorities are disciplined for. was her behaviour that unusual? How many ministers rant and rave at times? It took me ten seconds to find blunt spoken John Reid, and I know from having a friend who worked for MM that multiple complaints were made by her civil servants to Tony Blair about her behaviour.
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Nah, she's just a nasty piece of work.
 
Planigale said:
Yes in the public sector bullying is one of the things that one can be instantly suspended for. Certainly her behaviour should have been addressed when she was earlier in her career. But I wonder if there is a racist element to this? How much do you think this is because as an Asian woman she is expected to behave in a submissive way and if she swears and shouts this has more of an impact and is less forgiven than if a man behaved this way. Mo Mowlam, a labour minister shouted and swore but this was 'endearing'. John Reid was regarded as blunt spoken. Both were white working class, was bad language and shouting culturally acceptable for them but not her? There is a phenomenon that white men get away with things that ethnic minorities are disciplined for. was her behaviour that unusual? How many ministers rant and rave at times? It took me ten seconds to find blunt spoken John Reid, and I know from having a friend who worked for MM that multiple complaints were made by her civil servants to Tony Blair about her behaviour.
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I tend to think that the conclusion drawn from "other people do it, too" should be "therefore they should [have] suffer[ed] consequences, too", rather than "therefore nobody should suffer any consequences".

Priti Patel allegedly drove someone to attempt suicide. That's not okay, no matter how sharp a tongue other people may or may not have.
 
Trebuchet said:
Only if they are at least 38's with 18-pounders. 44's would be better.

Sorry, been reading too much historical fiction.
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An 88? That would be a bit bigger than a Frigate!
That would be a Third Rate and a Ship of the Line.

A two deck 80 gun 3rd rate was the preferred ship to have in commission in peacetime, most of the 1st and 2nd hulls were laid up. They were too big and crew heavy to be economic.

Some of the big Frigates in service in the 19th c had up to 50 - 24pdr guns but usually a Frigate in RN service was much smaller.

A Frigate in RN usage was a ship with a single gun deck built for speed, scouting, carrying signals and independent operation. Actual size and armament varied widely.
 
catsmate said:
Indeed. The "racism" angle appears to be a smokescreen to cover for her misdeeds and BuBu's unwillingness to deal with them.
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This is how institutional racism works. White (usually male) people get away with it. Examples are made of ethnic minority people. Disproportionately disciplinary cases are brought against BAME lawyers and doctors. Why is the only senior politician investigated formally for bullying an asian female when many other white politicians have behaved similarly and not suffered the consequences?

Having said that, Ms. Patel should not be exempt from the consequences of her action because she is asian. She should have been disciplined, (in some manner), certainly she should be required to be taking some form of training in personal interactions at minimum. Was this serious enough to be sacked, I am not sure, if there have been previous complaints held up on investigation, then yes. If this is the first time the issue has been raised with her then no.
 
Planigale said:
This is how institutional racism works. White (usually male) people get away with it. Examples are made of ethnic minority people. Disproportionately disciplinary cases are brought against BAME lawyers and doctors. Why is the only senior politician investigated formally for bullying an asian female when many other white politicians have behaved similarly and not suffered the consequences?

Having said that, Ms. Patel should not be exempt from the consequences of her action because she is asian. She should have been disciplined, (in some manner), certainly she should be required to be taking some form of training in personal interactions at minimum. Was this serious enough to be sacked, I am not sure, if there have been previous complaints held up on investigation, then yes. If this is the first time the issue has been raised with her then no.
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Someone attempted suicide because of her bullying. I don't care if this was the first or the fifteenth time she was accused she should be sacked and stripped of the conservative whip.
 
Planigale said:
This is how institutional racism works. White (usually male) people get away with it. Examples are made of ethnic minority people. Disproportionately disciplinary cases are brought against BAME lawyers and doctors. Why is the only senior politician investigated formally for bullying an asian female when many other white politicians have behaved similarly and not suffered the consequences?
...snip...
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You have seemingly equated "plain speaking" with what she did (and not alleged - the report found she had breached the code). Plus you have named politicians that were in power before the "Ministerial Code" was put in place - (which was if memory serves me right the policy of Cameron and Clegg) perhaps the politicians you mentioned were the reason for having a ministerial code in the first place?

I also think we are at best getting what she actually did through the government's spin and that sounds bad enough. If it is true that someone attempted suicide because of how she treated them then it is well beyond any "bullying" I've had to deal with over the last 30 years or so across multiple large international companies and I've had to deal with a lot of these types of complaints over the years.

(Bullying in quotes not to downplay it but to indicate in that past such behaviour would not have been classed as bullying but as harassment/intimidation/sexism or some such variant as bullying as a classification on its own is quite new.)
 
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