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Allegations of Fraud in 2020 US Election

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TellyKNeasuss said:
I'm getting tired of all this winning.



said the federal judge who tossed out a Trump lawsuit in Pennsylvania.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/21/poli...smisses-trump-pennsylvania-lawsuit/index.html
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More from the article:

Saturday is the 30th loss or withdrawal of a case from the Trump campaign and its allies since Election Day. There have only been two wins in court, about very small numbers of votes.
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But do not despair! Sidney Powell has the goods on Biden with the Dominion and Smartmatic voting machines which she'll be presenting any day now. Any day. Yep. Any day. You'll see. Just wait......
 
DevilsAdvocate said:
Now the question is on what grounds the case will be dismissed. Jurisdiction? Standing? Failure to state a claim? Laches? Abstention? Incompetent counsel?
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If you guessed "all of the above", you win!

Actually it was only standing, failure to state a claim, laches (although not using that term), suing the wrong party, invalid relief sought, invalid arguments ("This is simply not how the Constitution works."), comparing the contradictory patch-work of claims to "Frankenstein's Monster", and simply complete impossibility ("But even if it were logically possible to hold Pennsylvania’s electoral system both constitutional and unconstitutional at the same time, the Court would not do so.")

Motion to dismiss granted with prejudice. Leave to amend denied.
 
Nessie said:
I have concluded that there is no evidence of voter fraud on a scale sufficient to change the result. Biden wins.
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The super majority of fraud, errors, non-compliance of court rulings, or dereliction of election laws discovered that I have seen from all news agencies have been in Biden’s favor; which implies they have negatively impacted Trump. If you accept my statement as true, Do you have any concerns about that?
 
turingtest said:
From that article-



Yeah- I think that's kind of the point behind bringing the suits. TrumpCo know perfectly well their complaints have no merits- the idea is to delay, delay, delay, Gish-gallop the issue to a point, and a venue, where merits don't matter (much less the merits of an 80,000+ vote margin).
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I think that Trump really is doing this in revenge for what he perceives was the Dems' mistreatment of him. He's willing to screw over the entire country in pursuit of his own petty need for revenge.
 
Stacyhs said:
I think that Trump really is doing this in revenge for what he perceives was the Dems' mistreatment of him. He's willing to screw over the entire country in pursuit of his own petty need for revenge.
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Yes. I previously gave a list of 10 reasons Trump is doing all of this which don't include an attempted coup or even an actual attempt to overturn the election. I should have included one more:

11. Payback for the Russia investigation. He feels that delegitimized or diminished his election. Even though it was from his own doing he feels like he was punched and now wants to punch back twice as hard. If he couldn't bask in the untainted glory of victory, then he won't allow Biden to do so either.

That's why he is filing meritless lawsuits and paying for recounts that won't matter. He gets to at least keep Biden from being celebrated as the victor for a while and smear his accomplishment with the blemish of inquisition of fraud.

"It's not questionable whether I legitimately won an election, it's questionable whether you legitimately won an election."
 
Absolutely, DevilsAdvocate. "If I can't didn't have it, then you can't have it, either," is what Trump is all about. He's the most vile, petty little man on the face of the planet. There isn't a gracious, mature bone in his body. That's bad enough, but what bothers me more, is that so many people actually admire that about him.
 
Stacyhs said:
Absolutely, DevilsAdvocate. "If I can't didn't have it, then you can't have it, either," is what Trump is all about. He's the most vile, petty little man on the face of the planet. There isn't a gracious, mature bone in his body. That's bad enough, but what bothers me more, is that so many people actually admire that about him.
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That's bad enough, but what bothers me more is that the decisions he makes and the actions he takes out of petty vindictiveness to protect his fragile ego have very real and serious consequences to the stability of the county and on the lives (and deaths) of millions of Americans. And he still has two months to Make America Worse Again.
 
DevilsAdvocate said:
That's bad enough, but what bothers me more is that the decisions he makes and the actions he takes out of petty vindictiveness to protect his fragile ego have very real and serious consequences to the stability of the county and on the lives (and deaths) of millions of Americans. And he still has two months to Make America Worse Again.
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Absolutely. If GOP leaders had any integrity, they'd be invoking the 25th and removing him from power as a danger to the country immediately. But we know they don't.
 
DevilsAdvocate said:
That's bad enough, but what bothers me more is that the decisions he makes and the actions he takes out of petty vindictiveness to protect his fragile ego have very real and serious consequences to the stability of the county and on the lives (and deaths) of millions of Americans. And he still has two months to Make America Worse Again.
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Which I think is another goal behind his refusal to concede- as long as he can pretend to the satisfaction of his easily-satisfied base that he has a shred of legitimacy as something beside a lame duck, he can do whatever he wants in those two months to kneecap Biden's voter-sanctioned presidency. And if there are repercussions, the GOP will be more than happy to blame them on Biden, laying the groundwork for a "failed President" campaign against him in 2024 (which helps explain why Repubs aren't pushing back harder at Trump, with a couple of exceptions).
 
I've been wondering, is there a line where Trump and his minions are no longer "legally challenging the results" but "illegally committing fraud and attempting to manipulate the election"?

Is there any possibility that their shenanigans could lead to charges being filed.
 
DevilsAdvocate said:
11. Payback for the Russia investigation. He feels that delegitimized or diminished his election. Even though it was from his own doing he feels like he was punched and now wants to punch back twice as hard. If he couldn't bask in the untainted glory of victory, then he won't allow Biden to do so either.
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Actually, yes, and it fits well with his obvious malignant narcissism.

Having lived for seven years with a partner who was a malignant narcissist, I can tell you that revenge for the tiniest slight on them is a key feature of their behaviour.

Trump has fired.....
James Comey - revenge for refusing to pledge personal loyalty him.
Sally Yates - revenge for not defending Trump’s Muslim ban.
Jeff Sessions - revenge for not shutting down the Russia Investigation.
Lt Col Alex Vindman - revenge for daring to testify against him.
Chris Krebs - revenge for disagreeing with him about election security.
John Bolton - revenge for not agreeing to his foreign policy.
Rex Tillerson - revenge for telling Trump he couldn't do certain things w.r.t. foreign relations.
David Shulkin - revenge for disagreeing with Trump's plan to privatize VA health services
Andrew McCabe - revenge for investigating Trump's criminality



and many, many more
 
rdaneel said:
I've been wondering, is there a line where Trump and his minions are no longer "legally challenging the results" but "illegally committing fraud and attempting to manipulate the election"?

Is there any possibility that their shenanigans could lead to charges being filed.
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I can't see what criminal charges would apply.

Court could start issuing sanction for filing frivolous lawsuits. I wouldn't be surprised if that was one of the reasons behind recently dropping a number of lawsuits (but I doubt that is the only reason). That is also probably one of the reasons why the lawsuits are filed by Donald J. Trump for President, Inc. instead of by Trump himself (which has caused him some problems with issues on standing). Trump doesn't want any personal liability if the courts decide they have had enough of this nonsense and start getting tough.

But I doubt that will happen. I think the courts are kind of wearing kid gloves here because they want to make sure their dismissals are rock solid and not give any reason for them to get overturned on appeal.
 
DevilsAdvocate said:
I can't see what criminal charges would apply.

Court could start issuing sanction for filing frivolous lawsuits. I wouldn't be surprised if that was one of the reasons behind recently dropping a number of lawsuits (but I doubt that is the only reason). That is also probably one of the reasons why the lawsuits are filed by Donald J. Trump for President, Inc. instead of by Trump himself (which has caused him some problems with issues on standing). Trump doesn't want any personal liability if the courts decide they have had enough of this nonsense and start getting tough.

But I doubt that will happen. I think the courts are kind of wearing kid gloves here because they want to make sure their dismissals are rock solid and not give any reason for them to get overturned on appeal.
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Ah, well, as has been mentioned before, their strategy is to throw whatever they can against a wall to see if anything sticks. I was just wondering if it was possible they may throw something they shouldn't.
 
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DevilsAdvocate said:
I can't see what criminal charges would apply.

Court could start issuing sanction for filing frivolous lawsuits. I wouldn't be surprised if that was one of the reasons behind recently dropping a number of lawsuits (but I doubt that is the only reason). That is also probably one of the reasons why the lawsuits are filed by Donald J. Trump for President, Inc. instead of by Trump himself (which has caused him some problems with issues on standing). Trump doesn't want any personal liability if the courts decide they have had enough of this nonsense and start getting tough.

But I doubt that will happen. I think the courts are kind of wearing kid gloves here because they want to make sure their dismissals are rock solid and not give any reason for them to get overturned on appeal.
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I agree.

I was surprised that the Pennsylvania judge took until today to issue his judgement where Rudy played attorney. That was Tuesday IIRC. That was a pathetic case and an easy decision so why take so long to deliver it I have wondered.

Your analysis explains why.
 
turingtest said:
Which I think is another goal behind his refusal to concede- as long as he can pretend to the satisfaction of his easily-satisfied base that he has a shred of legitimacy as something beside a lame duck, he can do whatever he wants in those two months to kneecap Biden's voter-sanctioned presidency. And if there are repercussions, the GOP will be more than happy to blame them on Biden, laying the groundwork for a "failed President" campaign against him in 2024 (which helps explain why Repubs aren't pushing back harder at Trump, with a couple of exceptions).
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Absolutely.:thumbsup:
 
ServiceSoon said:
The super majority of fraud, errors, non-compliance of court rulings, or dereliction of election laws discovered that I have seen from all news agencies have been in Biden’s favor; which implies they have negatively impacted Trump. If you accept my statement as true, Do you have any concerns about that?
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The supermajority of alleged cases of fraud, errors etc. are being dismissed because almost all of them have no legal merit. That's independent of whether Biden benefits. I'm not concerned about judges making correct legal decisions.
 
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