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Allegations of Fraud in 2020 US Election

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The Great Zaganza said:
Man, they must be soooooo happy to have something other than Trump to talk about.
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I mean how dare those liberals try and remove a man from a home that he has lived in for 4 years? The poor man just got out of the hospital. How can they be sooo cruel!?
 
Meadmaker said:
You could, but it would be silly.


Al Gore challenged the Florida count on the grounds that there were errors made in counting ballots, and that if properly counted he may have been the winner. That doesn't undermine anything about democracy, or anything except possibly the reliability of certain voting systems.

Donald Trump is saying that massive numbers of fraudulent votes are being cast, that the system is so corrupt that the outcome cannot be trusted, and that our election for the President of the United States is not legal. Moreover, the remedy his lawyers are proposing is to throw out a whole bunch of ballots, and only count the rest. Of course, the ones to be thrown out are for the other guy.

To compare Gore and Trump is simply illogical.
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The intent is to prevent ballot stuffing. Michigan law (MCL 168.871(1)) specifies when a precinct is not recountable. A precinct is not recountable if the seal on the ballot box is broken or it otherwise appears the ballots have been tampered with. In that case, the original count stands because you don't want to replace with original count with a recount based on manipulated ballots.

The same holds true if the number of ballots doesn't match the poll list. For example: The poll list show 100 ballots given out. Candidate A gets 51 and Candidate B gets 49. Candidate B asks for a recount. When they open the ballot box, there are 150 ballots. Somebody must have stuffed 50 illegal ballots in the box after the original count. Or maybe there are only 50 ballots. Somebody took 50 ballots out of the box. So you can't do a recount and the original count stands.

If the number of ballots does not match the poll list, there can still be a recount if the county board of canvassers approves. The law says there cannot be a recount in that case only if "the difference is not explained to the satisfaction of the board of canvassers."

There is nothing in the law (that I see) that would prevent the board from asking for an investigation in order to resolve the discrepancy. If there is only a very small discrepancy compared to the number of ballots, the board theoretically could decided that "possible clerical error" is a satisfactory explanation.
 
DevilsAdvocate said:
The intent is to prevent ballot stuffing. Michigan law (MCL 168.871(1)) specifies when a precinct is not recountable. A precinct is not recountable if the seal on the ballot box is broken or it otherwise appears the ballots have been tampered with. In that case, the original count stands because you don't want to replace with original count with a recount based on manipulated ballots.

The same holds true if the number of ballots doesn't match the poll list. For example: The poll list show 100 ballots given out. Candidate A gets 51 and Candidate B gets 49. Candidate B asks for a recount. When they open the ballot box, there are 150 ballots. Somebody must have stuffed 50 illegal ballots in the box after the original count. Or maybe there are only 50 ballots. Somebody took 50 ballots out of the box. So you can't do a recount and the original count stands.

If the number of ballots does not match the poll list, there can still be a recount if the county board of canvassers approves. The law says there cannot be a recount in that case only if "the difference is not explained to the satisfaction of the board of canvassers."

There is nothing in the law (that I see) that would prevent the board from asking for an investigation in order to resolve the discrepancy. If there is only a very small discrepancy compared to the number of ballots, the board theoretically could decided that "possible clerical error" is a satisfactory explanation.
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:thumbsup: Thanks.
 
phiwum said:
Guess we know who has acbytesla on ignore...
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Hell no!!! He's one of my favourite posters.

The reason I saw the others first because I have my forum page display set to show the latest posts at the top.

For those who don't know how to do this

UCP > Thread Display Options > Thread Display Mode. Select "Linear - Newest First" form the drop-down box
 
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Trump observers just slowing recount in WI. They will finish by the end of the month no matter what

He didn’t anticipate the delays would raise the $2 million price tag of the recount, paid by the Trump campaign, unless it becomes necessary to get more space and tables to address a backlog.

The county has a Dec. 1 deadline to finish the recount.

“The Trump campaign is continually revisiting issues that the commission has ruled on, such as observers saying that they cannot see when, again, that was addressed already,” Christenson said to explain what is slowing the process.

There appeared to be a disconnect between the attorneys arguing before the three-member Board of Canvassers and the attorneys acting on behalf of the Trump campaign in the aisles and the observers at each of the tables where the counting is taking place, he said.

Another issue, he said, is that the observers are “disruptive,” asking question after question and telling the election workers to stop what they’re doing.

“It’s not our job to train their observers on what they’re observing,” he said. “They
clearly don’t know what they’re doing and so they keep asking questions. And we’ve said to the Trump campaign, you need to tell your people what you’re looking for here because they’re objecting to every ballot.”

Observers need to ask the campaigns if they have questions, not the election workers, he said.

He said he believed a total of three ballots from Bayside and Hales Corners were rejected so far.

Christenson did not know how many, or whether, ballots had been counted at that point, saying he had been at the front table responding to the many objections brought by the Trump campaign.
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https://www.jsonline.com/story/news...n-recount-dane-milwaukee-counties/6353846002/

If the recounts focus on discrepancies by ward, it will go like this:

If there are more voters logged in the book than there are ballots, "they threw out Trump ballots!"
If there are more ballots than signatures in the book, "they added illegal Biden ballots!"
 
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DevilsAdvocate said:
If the number of ballots does not match the poll list, there can still be a recount if the county board of canvassers approves. The law says there cannot be a recount in that case only if "the difference is not explained to the satisfaction of the board of canvassers."

There is nothing in the law (that I see) that would prevent the board from asking for an investigation in order to resolve the discrepancy. If there is only a very small discrepancy compared to the number of ballots, the board theoretically could decided that "possible clerical error" is a satisfactory explanation.
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Ok. That makes sense. Basically, they can still be recounted, but a human has to go in and take a look and make sure that there's no funny business.

Thanks, as usual.
 
smartcooky said:
Hell no!!! He's one of my favourite posters.

The reason I saw the others first because I have my forum page display set to show the latest posts at the top.

For those who don't know how to do this

UCP > Thread Display Options > Thread Display Mode. Select "Linear - Newest First" form the drop-down box
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I was just kidding.
 
Tero said:
If there are more voters logged in the book than there are ballots, "they threw out Trump ballots!"
If there are more ballots than signatures in the book, "they added illegal Biden ballots!"
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And if they agree perfectly, "they threw out Trump ballots and added illegal Biden ballots!"

Dave
 
TellyKNeasuss said:
I'm getting tired of all this winning.



said the federal judge who tossed out a Trump lawsuit in Pennsylvania.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/21/poli...smisses-trump-pennsylvania-lawsuit/index.html
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From that article-

The judge said any further consideration of this issue "would unduly delay resolution of the issues" regarding certification.
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Yeah- I think that's kind of the point behind bringing the suits. TrumpCo know perfectly well their complaints have no merits- the idea is to delay, delay, delay, Gish-gallop the issue to a point, and a venue, where merits don't matter (much less the merits of an 80,000+ vote margin).
 
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