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Allegations of Fraud in 2020 US Election

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The Wayne County Republican board members are claiming that they were “bullied” into changing their votes by criticism expressed during the part of the meeting open to public commentary.

Imagine being such a pathetic coward that you abdicate your official responsibilities to protect the integrity of the vote because people said mean things to you on Zoom?

Meanwhile, volunteer ballot counters all over the country faithfully carried out their civic duty while Republican conspiracy theorists armed with guns screamed at them outside.
 
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//Slight hijack//

I always thought that phrase was completely backwards. Surely it should be "Eat your cake and have it."

As George Carlin said it's perfectly reasonable to want to eat a cake you have.
 
JoeMorgue said:
//Slight hijack//

I always thought that phrase was completely backwards. Surely it should be "Eat your cake and have it."

As George Carlin said it's perfectly reasonable to want to eat a cake you have.
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Agreed. And I always thought the simple solution was to just get two cakes.
 
Puppycow said:
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/n...d-votes-certify-wayne-county-vote/3775246001/



No takesy-backsies?
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Wonderful. Now they have created a situation where no one is certain exactly what happened, or whose job it is to straighten it out.

It seems to me, but I have no special knowledge so I am not confident about it, that the actual situation is that with the yes vote, the votes were certified, and that can't be taken back. However, the state board of canvassers also has to certify, which is part of the normal process, and they are holding information (i.e. the affidavits) that they will have to consider when making their decision. Also, the unprecedented circumstances of the Wayne County certification makes a situation that opens the door for litigation.

If I were just a bit more paranoid, I would declare that these people were attempting to do everything they can to ensure that there is an issue that could be taken to the US Supreme Court in the hopes that ACB will step in and declare Trump re-elected.
 
I've mentioned this book a lot as oddly prophetic of a lot of 'Trumpness.'

Debt of Honor, the Tom Clancy Ryanverse novel.

In it Japan decides it go to war with the US (long story, don't think about it too hard) and it doing so it decides the best thing to do is to manufacture a huge internal crisis to keep the US busy so it can't focus on winning the war.

So they pay of someone to put a computer virus into the Stock Exchange that causes several major corporations and trading firms to lose so much money it sends the market into a panic. It works because none of the failsafes (either technological or procedural) built into the system accounted for the possibility of multiple someones intentionally trying to lose as much money as possible.

The system failed to account for this particular problem because it assumed everyone, even the people trying to cheat the system, would be sharing the same goal, to make money. If one of the company/trading firms had been trying to make money illegal, the "system" would have recognized it and reacted to minimize the damage. But the system had no response to "making massive huge trades in a way designed to lose money."

Trump has essentially done that to our political system. We simply never thought to build safeguards into the system for his sort of trolling.
 
Meadmaker said:
Wonderful. Now they have created a situation where no one is certain exactly what happened, or whose job it is to straighten it out.

It seems to me, but I have no special knowledge so I am not confident about it, that the actual situation is that with the yes vote, the votes were certified, and that can't be taken back. However, the state board of canvassers also has to certify, which is part of the normal process, and they are holding information (i.e. the affidavits) that they will have to consider when making their decision. Also, the unprecedented circumstances of the Wayne County certification makes a situation that opens the door for litigation.

If I were just a bit more paranoid, I would declare that these people were attempting to do everything they can to ensure that there is an issue that could be taken to the US Supreme Court in the hopes that ACB will step in and declare Trump re-elected.
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Apparently between their votes to certify and their affidavits to take back that certification, both Republicans spoke with Trump. Maybe you should be just a bit more paranoid.
 
johnny karate said:
The Wayne County Republican board members are claiming that they were “bullied” into changing their votes by criticism expressed during the part of the meeting open to public commentary.

Imagine being such a pathetic coward that you abdicate your official responsibilities to protect the integrity of the vote because people said mean things to you on Zoom?

Meanwhile, volunteer ballot counters all over the country faithfully carried out their civic duty while Republican conspiracy theorists armed with guns screamed at them outside.
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I don't doubt they were bullied. They got off light.

Far worse things have historically happened to those who attempt to disenfranchise the population. This is often something people get killed over. No doubt significant volumes of blood will be spilled if Trump is actually successful in stealing this election.

The problem with these people is that they don't really seem to understand the kind of play they are making. They ought to know the stakes here. Waffling and crying about it makes it clear they don't understand the kind of danger they are messing around with.
 
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wareyin said:
Apparently between their votes to certify and their affidavits to take back that certification, both Republicans spoke with Trump. Maybe you should be just a bit more paranoid.
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From the article:

"He (Trump) was checking to make sure I was safe after seeing/hearing about the threats and doxxing," Palmer wrote in a text message, referring to a firestorm of information released about her on social media.

Palmer earlier told the Free Press her family had "received multiple threats." "The threats have been made against myself, my daughter and my husband," she said. "Reports have been filed with Grosse Pointe Woods police and the FBI."
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Trump never bothered to call Gretchen Whitmer and check to see if she was safe when there was an actual plan to kidnap and execute her. I wonder if these 'threats' against Palmer were as 'horrible' as the one against Palmer's daughter that turned out to be no threat at all unless edited by a dishonest scumbag.
 
As best I can tell from reading Michigan sources, the affidavits rescinding the Wayne County votes to certify the election have no direct legal effect. The votes are certified and Wayne County's role is done.

I say "direct", because the Michigan Board of State Canvassers is also made up of two Republicans and two Democrats, and there will be a lot of political pressure on the Republicans to refuse to certify the elections at this point. They meet Monday. All Michigan counties, including Wayne, have reported certified results, so it ought to be a rubber stamp issue, but Donald Trump is still President, so who knows what will actually happen.
 
Meadmaker said:
As best I can tell from reading Michigan sources, the affidavits rescinding the Wayne County votes to certify the election have no direct legal effect. The votes are certified and Wayne County's role is done.

I say "direct", because the Michigan Board of State Canvassers is also made up of two Republicans and two Democrats, and there will be a lot of political pressure on the Republicans to refuse to certify the elections at this point. They meet Monday. All Michigan counties, including Wayne, have reported certified results, so it ought to be a rubber stamp issue, but Donald Trump is still President, so who knows what will actually happen.
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The certifications are in, and I think it's Benson who calls it on Monday, isn't it? I'd think it's a done deal.
 
eerok said:
The certifications are in, and I think it's Benson who calls it on Monday, isn't it? I'd think it's a done deal.
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As I understand it, no. I think the Board of State Canvassers have to vote first.

I don't know what happens if they don't reach an agreement. I'll see if I can find the answer.
 
Meadmaker said:
As I understand it, no. I think the Board of State Canvassers have to vote first.

I don't know what happens if they don't reach an agreement. I'll see if I can find the answer.
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Yes, I've been continuing to read about it, and I'm not so sure how things stand. If the votes are certified, though, how could their meeting be anything more than a formality? I think it likely will come down to Benson. At least, let's hope.

ETA: The notion that a 150K lead could be arbitrarily reversed by one or two people is pretty frightening.
 
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eerok said:
Yes, I've been continuing to read about it, and I'm not so sure how things stand. If the votes are certified, though, how could their meeting be anything more than a formality? I think it likely will come down to Benson. At least, let's hope.
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I've seen news articles that say the Board of State Canvassers is required by law to certify the election by November 23, which is Monday. I haven't seen any reference to what happens if they don't.


My guess is that Jocelyn Benson (Michigan Secretary of State for those of you outside our pleasant peninsulas) will agree to do the sort of audit that was requested for Detroit, and that will give cover to the two GOP members of the board, and the results will be certified, and all will be right with the world.


The other option is.......................I don't know.
 
eerok said:
Yes, I've been continuing to read about it, and I'm not so sure how things stand. If the votes are certified, though, how could their meeting be anything more than a formality? I think it likely will come down to Benson. At least, let's hope.

ETA: The notion that a 150K lead could be arbitrarily reversed by one or two people is pretty frightening.
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The auditors who held up the certification are Wayne County certifiers, now it goes to the state level. It still appears to only be a formality and the votes will be certified.

That would likely happen if Republican canvassers refuse to certify the statewide results, he said, noting it happened in 2006, when the Michigan Court of Appeals ordered the state board to approve the form of a conservative group's anti-affirmative action petition that had stalled in a party-line vote.

In that case, three judges unanimously ruled the Board of State Canvassers had no legal authority to conduct an investigation into alleged petition fraud.

That means they "have no discretion" over what is really just a "ministerial function," Liedel said.
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https://www.bridgemi.com/michigan-government/michigan-gop-canvassers-under-pressure-ignore-votes-help-trump
 
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