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Allegations of Fraud in 2020 US Election

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Craig4 said:
Trump's suffering is about to feed my soul again.
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Kind of a strange outcome of this election is that everyone gets to relive miniature celebrations of the Trump loss every time one of these meritless, moonshot attempts to steal the vote fails. Like aftershocks to a large earthquake, smaller Trump losses follow his big defeat on election day as he desperately begs courts to support his lies.

For someone who really doesn't want to be known as a Loser, Trump is doing everything in his power to remind everyone, over and over again, that he lost.

The conspiratorial MAGA cranks hold onto hope of some 11th hour redemption of Trump that will only make their tears on inauguration day all the more delicious to their enemies.
 
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SuburbanTurkey said:
Kind of a strange outcome of this election is that everyone gets to relive miniature celebrations of the Trump loss every time one of these meritless, moonshot attempts to steal the vote fails. Like aftershocks to a large earthquake, smaller Trump losses follow his big defeat on election day as he desperately begs courts to support his lies.

For someone who really doesn't want to be known as a Loser, Trump is doing everything in his power to remind everyone, over and over again, that he lost.
The conspiratorial MAGA cranks hold onto hope of some 11th hour redemption of Trump that will only make their tears on inauguration day all the more delicious to their enemies.
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Trump has never cared, at any time during his Presidency, about the opinions of anyone but his most die-hard base- his most strenuous effort has only ever been to cater to their bigotries, suspicions, and grievances. And that hasn't changed now. So what we see as him proving himself as a loser over and over again, that carefully nurtured base sees as him proving, over and over, that he was actually cheated, and that he really is the hero he's always posed as. Half of Republicans Say Biden Won Because of a 'Rigged' Election: Reuters/Ipsos Poll (US News & World Report)-

About half of all Republicans believe President Donald Trump "rightfully won" the U.S. election but that it was stolen from him by widespread voter fraud that favored Democratic President-elect Joe Biden, according to a new Reuters/Ipsos opinion poll.

The Nov. 13-17 opinion poll showed that Trump’s open defiance of Biden's victory in both the popular vote and Electoral College appears to be affecting the public’s confidence in American democracy, especially among Republicans.
Altogether, 73% of those polled agreed that Biden won the election while 5% thought Trump won. But when asked specifically whether Biden had "rightfully won," Republicans showed they were suspicious about how Biden's victory was obtained.

Fifty-two percent of Republicans said that Trump "rightfully won," while only 29% said that Biden had rightfully won.
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Trump is getting exactly the message he wants across to exactly the only audience he cares about (especially with the highlighted).
 
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turingtest said:
Trump has never cared, at any time during his Presidency, about the opinions of anyone but his most die-hard base- his most strenuous effort has only ever been to cater to their bigotries, suspicions, and grievances. And that hasn't changed now. So what we see as him proving himself as a loser over and over again, that carefully nurtured base see as him proving, over and over, that he was actually cheated, and that he really is the hero he's always posed as. Half of Republicans Say Biden Won Because of a 'Rigged' Election: Reuters/Ipsos Poll (US News & World Report)-


Trump is getting exactly the message he wants across to exactly the only audience he cares about (especially with the highlighted).
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Perhaps, but Trump could convince the right wing that the election was stolen without the lawsuits. I'm not seeing how losing these lawsuits is helping him build the narrative that he's the real winner.

Going into court and having to admit there's no evidence isn't helpful for the cause. Holding rallies or screeching lies on OAN are more useful venues for these kinds of untrue claims.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
Perhaps, but Trump could convince the right wing that the election was stolen without the lawsuits. I'm not seeing how losing these lawsuits is helping him build the narrative that he's the real winner.

Going into court and having to admit there's no evidence isn't helpful for the cause. Holding rallies or screeching lies on OAN are more useful venues for these kinds of untrue claims.
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I can see that, if he doesn't contest the election, at least some of the people who currently believe it was rigged might well doubt that Trump ever had any evidence it was rigged. Pursuing the lawsuits while tweeting that there's a huge amount of evidence, as a strategy for convincing them, is probably a lot better, because most of them will simply assume that the Trump campaign presented credible evidence in court but that the entire judicial system is as much rigged against him as the electoral system. Most of them either won't bother to read any accounts of the actual court proceedings, or will assume that the media are publishing the same kind of lies about them as they are about the election. The lawsuits give the supporters a framework on which to construct a bigger and more satisfying conspiracy theory, where not pursuing the lawsuits might leave them without a focus.

Dave
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
Perhaps, but Trump could convince the right wing that the election was stolen without the lawsuits. I'm not seeing how losing these lawsuits is helping him build the narrative that he's the real winner.

Going into court and having to admit there's no evidence isn't helpful for the cause. Holding rallies or screeching lies on OAN are more useful venues for these kinds of untrue claims.
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But we've already seen the excuses here. The court cases they have lost (like, all of them) are just the weak ones. The real good ones are yet to come.

The other excuse is going to be that the courts are biased. I mean, Hannity was saying last night that he heard Rudy did a great job in court yesterday. Meanwhile, in reality, he was a bumbling idiot who was apparently unaware of what was in the complaint he was supposed to be arguing, and was unaware of basic legal procedures, or even simple vocabulary (didn't know what the word "opacity" meant).

So when the judge comes down hard on him and rules against them, how does that get interpreted? They don't have a case? Rudy screwed up? No, it must be the court is biased because Rudy did a good job, just ask Sean Hannity.

Losing court cases means nothing to them.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
Perhaps, but Trump could convince the right wing that the election was stolen without the lawsuits. I'm not seeing how losing these lawsuits is helping him build the narrative that he's the real winner.

Going into court and having to admit there's no evidence isn't helpful for the cause. Holding rallies or screeching lies on OAN are more useful venues for these kinds of untrue claims.
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Dave Rogers said:
I can see that, if he doesn't contest the election, at least some of the people who currently believe it was rigged might well doubt that Trump ever had any evidence it was rigged. Pursuing the lawsuits while tweeting that there's a huge amount of evidence, as a strategy for convincing them, is probably a lot better, because most of them will simply assume that the Trump campaign presented credible evidence in court but that the entire judicial system is as much rigged against him as the electoral system. Most of them either won't bother to read any accounts of the actual court proceedings, or will assume that the media are publishing the same kind of lies about them as they are about the election. The lawsuits give the supporters a framework on which to construct a bigger and more satisfying conspiracy theory, where not pursuing the lawsuits might leave them without a focus.

Dave
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Pretty much what Dave said. I'll just add that there an awful lot of people who will cling to the "he wouldn't say it if it wasn't true" lifeboat; for those folks, it's only a short stretch to "he wouldn't bring the lawsuits if he didn't have the evidence," and, as Dave says, to simply believe that the courts that are throwing out the suits are part of the same cheating "deep state" system that counted dead voters and kept GOP observers out of the counting houses. It isn't evidence that these people want or its lack that they will pay any attention to; they just want the narrative. Bringing and losing those lawsuits is actually a crucial part of that narrative.
 
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smartcooky said:
Biden should immediately hire him as his Cybersecrity advisor, and put him right back in his job on January 20, 2021. In fact, he should do that with all Trumps revenge firings.
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The main reason for hiring him back is that he has proved, with his job as the cost, that he is willing to do what is right and tell the truth.
 
rdaneel said:
So, the courts that Trump has been packing with conservatives for the last 4 years is totally rigged against him.
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"Deep state!"
"Okay but that doesn't make any sense..."
"Deep.... state!"
"Seriously Mr. President. The bulk of these people are your own appointees..."
"DEEP... STATE!"
"Mr. President you have some food stuck in your teeth..."
"DEEEEEEEEEEP....... STAAAAAAATE!"
 
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Paul2 said:
The main reason for hiring him back is that he has proved, with his job as the cost, that he is willing to do what is right and tell the truth.
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It's crazy. The guy was hired to do a specific job: to ensure the election was secure and fair. He did that, he was successful. It's a win for the administration. But because a certain person didn't like the outcome of the election, he was fired.
 
Monza said:
But because a certain person didn't like the outcome of the election, he was fired.
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Not really, it was more because he did his job well enough that a certain person couldn't muddy the waters over the outcome of the election as much as he'd like. Basically, he's been fired for doing an excellent job and being honest and courageous.

Dave
 
Dave Rogers said:
Not really, it was more because he did his job well enough that a certain person couldn't muddy the waters over the outcome of the election as much as he'd like. Basically, he's been fired for doing an excellent job and being honest and courageous.

Dave
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Or they believe the counter narrative.

In that case, it would be nonsense to keep the service of someone you view as completely wrong.
 
BobTheCoward said:
Or they believe the counter narrative.
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Yes, it's possible Trump sincerely believes what he's saying. Which, of course, makes him all the more dangerous, because he could end up destroying democracy in the US because he's so passionately committed to saving it. But on the whole I suspect he's a high functioning psychopath who simply doesn't care how much harm he does in the interest of not ever being seen to be less than the best in the history of the world at everything.

Dave
 
Meadmaker said:
She's right.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/n...fying-november-3-election-results/6324274002/

ETA: Probably a key part of the change of heart:

"The change in course was approved by the two Republican and two Democratic canvassers with the demand that the Secretary of State's office conduct an audit of unbalanced absentee counting board results."

Basically, there were, in fact, a lot of errors in the counting. More than there ought to be. It only affected a small number of votes, but it wasn't a good outcome. So, it looks like the canvassers talked amongst themselves and agreed to certify the results in exchange for an official examination of the process in Wayne County, especially in Detroit. Seems fair.
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acbytesla said:
Wow, people being reasonable! That's good news. The refusal earlier to not certify the results troubled me.
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I’m not so sure that “people being reasonable” was a deciding factor here.

The reversal occurred after the Republican board members were absolutely scorched during the public comment portion of the meeting:
The canvassers first rejected certification of the Detroit-area vote with a tie. Monica Palmer, a Republican on the board, said poll books in certain Detroit precincts were out of balance. In response, Jonathan Kinloch, a Democrat, said it was “reckless and irresponsible” to not certify the results.

“It’s not based upon fraud. It’s absolutely human error,” Kinloch said of any discrepancies. “Votes that are cast are tabulated.”

The board then listened to a parade of spectators blasting Palmer and fellow Republican William Hartmann during the meeting’s public comment period over Zoom.
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Here’s a Twitter thread of some of the highlights:

https://mobile.twitter.com/JennaWils/status/1328853289371373568

The first two are, as the kids say, “straight fire”.
 
johnny karate said:
I’m not so sure that “people being reasonable” was a deciding factor here.

The reversal occurred after the Republican board members were absolutely scorched during the public comment portion of the meeting:


Here’s a Twitter thread of some of the highlights:

https://mobile.twitter.com/JennaWils/status/1328853289371373568

The first two are, as the kids say, “straight fire”.
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Remember, they certified the results in 2016 despite the fact that there similarly were poll books "out of balance." I wonder what is different this year?

I've said this all along, all of these supposed issues being brought up by Trumpets have always occurred in elections in the past. It's not a sign of fraud, it's the sign of an imperfect system.

Oddly enough, it has always been democrats screaming about the unreliability of things like electronic voting, and Republicans have been pushing it to line the pockets of their business buddies. But now.....
 
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