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Cont: 2020 Presidential Election part 3

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wareyin said:
Yeah, but she also said facts don't matter. Both sides bad because Republicans make baseless allegations against Democrats that fall apart under any scrutiny while Democrats make allegations against Republicans that are found to be valid in court.
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:covereyes I was attempting to say that facts don't matter to the public who are going to see constant challenging and questioning of the validity and lose trust in the government regardless of which party is in there and regardless of whether the challenges have any basis in fact or not.
 
Emily's Cat said:
:covereyes I was attempting to say that facts don't matter to the public who are going to see constant challenging and questioning of the validity and lose trust in the government regardless of which party is in there and regardless of whether the challenges have any basis in fact or not.
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Thats the strategy employed by Trump. Get people chasing shadows.
 
Emily's Cat said:
:covereyes I was attempting to say that facts don't matter to the public who are going to see constant challenging and questioning of the validity and lose trust in the government regardless of which party is in there and regardless of whether the challenges have any basis in fact or not.
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Ok, let's say this variable which transforms valid claims into the same thing as absurd claims is true.

Now what?

Don't quibble over the wording, I'm being as patient as my incredulity allows.

Do we not call out actual abuses of power by Republicans because it will "erode public trust?" They get to continue abusing that power unabated? That will restore trust?

I'm entirely perplexed.

Unless this is just a lament of hopelessness and the futility of life that doesn't really advance the discussion?
 
Emily's Cat said:
Look at the tactics, the effect on the public, and the overall precedent set for politics. It started (in my memory at least) with the challenges to Obama's nationality. It has continued since then, and will very likely continue into the future. This is now an acceptable political tactic for making the party in power ineffective.
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How is that the least bit relevant?
 
turingtest said:
Skepticism is a process designed specifically for reaching conclusions, not a position in itself that forbids ever doing anything more useful than pretending all viewpoints are equal and equally valid.
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I would not have thought to answer that particular line - I don't consciously think a lot about what skepticism is or isn't.

Thanks for your comments and the spoiler :). Puppy pictures are a good antidote to fixating on the election.
 
Minoosh said:
I haven't followed these suits very closely. But I read this one because someone posted a marked-up version. If I understand correctly that claim is still in the suit, but the remedy was omitted: blocking the certification of almost 700,000 votes counted in "secret." It did make me wonder what exactly the setup was for observing counting of absentee ballots. If the Trump campaign is still making that claim, the suit is not necessarily as dead as I'd like it to be.

The thing about equal protection is bogus. Some counties that allowed "curing" are Republican-dominated and some counties that didn't allow it lean Democratic. And it's not very many votes.
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The observers issue was tossed out when the plaintiffs admitted there were indeed GOP observers during the counting.
 
Emily's Cat said:
:covereyes I was attempting to say that facts don't matter to the public who are going to see constant challenging and questioning of the validity and lose trust in the government regardless of which party is in there and regardless of whether the challenges have any basis in fact or not.
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And that means we're not skeptical/objective? Because the public won't be convinced? :rolleyes:

You're not helping your cause here.
 
Delphic Oracle said:
Ok, let's say this variable which transforms valid claims into the same thing as absurd claims is true.

Now what?

Don't quibble over the wording, I'm being as patient as my incredulity allows.

Do we not call out actual abuses of power by Republicans because it will "erode public trust?" They get to continue abusing that power unabated? That will restore trust?

I'm entirely perplexed.
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Not a case of "let people abuse power unabated". But it would probably be nice if there weren't so much effort being put into the media take on it. Regardless of facts, the sensationalism that goes along with it is a detriment. For example... there should definitely have been an investigation regarding Russian interference. There should probably NOT, in my opinion, been constant media drip-feeds of every allegation and speculation on the topic.

Delphic Oracle said:
Unless this is just a lament of hopelessness and the futility of life that doesn't really advance the discussion?
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A bit of lamentation, yes, probably. Also a bit of "word of warning". A precedent has been set. It won't get unset. This election has been "trump is going to refuse to accept the outcome and he's going to refuse to step down" against "biden and burisma shenanigans and dems are going to cheat with mail votes". No matter who won the election, there was going to be outcry because the messages had already been seeded in the public. Right now, we're seeing both of these play out at the same time. Half the country is convinced that there is voter fraud, and half the country is convinced that Trump is involved in a coup. Both sides of that are, in my opinion, dumb and panicky.

And once this current grandstanding and idiocy is over and Biden takes office... I fully expect that we will spend the next four year (or however long Biden stays alive) with some deep congressional investigation into Burisma.

This crap is never going to end. Facts aren't the issue here. It's the acceptance and normalization of the tactics that is the problem in my view.
 
He's not showing any signs of giving up

Trump Tweets

The recent statement by Chris Krebs on the security of the 2020 Election was highly inaccurate, in that there were massive improprieties and fraud - including dead people voting, Poll Watchers not allowed into polling locations, “glitches” in the voting machines which changed...

...votes from Trump to Biden, late voting, and many more. Therefore, effective immediately, Chris Krebs has been terminated as Director of the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency.
 
Emily's Cat said:
Not a case of "let people abuse power unabated". But it would probably be nice if there weren't so much effort being put into the media take on it. Regardless of facts, the sensationalism that goes along with it is a detriment. For example... there should definitely have been an investigation regarding Russian interference. There should probably NOT, in my opinion, been constant media drip-feeds of every allegation and speculation on the topic.





A bit of lamentation, yes, probably. Also a bit of "word of warning". A precedent has been set. It won't get unset. This election has been "trump is going to refuse to accept the outcome and he's going to refuse to step down" against "biden and burisma shenanigans and dems are going to cheat with mail votes". No matter who won the election, there was going to be outcry because the messages had already been seeded in the public. Right now, we're seeing both of these play out at the same time. Half the country is convinced that there is voter fraud, and half the country is convinced that Trump is involved in a coup. Both sides of that are, in my opinion, dumb and panicky.



And once this current grandstanding and idiocy is over and Biden takes office... I fully expect that we will spend the next four year (or however long Biden stays alive) with some deep congressional investigation into Burisma.



This crap is never going to end. Facts aren't the issue here. It's the acceptance and normalization of the tactics that is the problem in my view.
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And, in conclusion, we should...

?
 
Norman Alexander said:
Nobody, including OANN, has had the guts to tell him he lost the court cases. So he is still living in that fairyland of his imagination where he is still "winning" and the MSM and all are just spoiling his party.
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You just wait. Steiner's attack will bring it under control.
 
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