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Cont: 2020 Presidential Election part 3

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I don't know.

All that these lawsuits and tweets do is highlight how completely incompetent this administration is.
Trump is President, if a loyal AG and Senate - and yet can't find evidence of fraud.
 
acbytesla said:
Are you sure about this?
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The Georgia Secretary of State seems to suggest that ballots can be matched with signatures.

WAPO said:
Raffensperger said he will vigorously fight the lawsuit, which would require the matching of ballot envelopes with ballots — potentially exposing individual voters’ choices.

“It doesn’t matter what political party or which campaign does that,” Raffensperger said. “The secrecy of the vote is sacred.”
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If it were impossible, he wouldn't have reacted thus.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
All that these lawsuits and tweets do is highlight how completely incompetent this administration is.
Trump is President, if a loyal AG and Senate - and yet can't find evidence of fraud.
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You're missing the point. As shuttlt has pointed out in another thread, you'd expect the weaker lawsuits to be the first ones to fail. Trump is holding back the real evidence of fraud till he's lulled everyone into a false sense of security, then just when the election thieves are starting to relax, BAM! He'll hit them with the genuine evidence. Apparently this is a common legal strategy rather than an incompetent waste of time and money.

Dave
 
Dave Rogers said:
You're missing the point. As shuttlt has pointed out in another thread, you'd expect the weaker lawsuits to be the first ones to fail. Trump is holding back the real evidence of fraud till he's lulled everyone into a false sense of security, then just when the election thieves are starting to relax, BAM! He'll hit them with the genuine evidence. Apparently this is a common legal strategy rather than an incompetent waste of time and money.

Dave
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It is always better to pull out the surprise witness at the last moment when things are looking dire. I've seen it happen countless times on various TV shows. Since Trump is the TV president, why would he do it any other way. Checkmate leftist vote fraudsters!!!

:rolleyes:
 
TragicMonkey said:
Some people find erotic enjoyment in humiliation. Just a possibility. That explains much about Graham.
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But then his relationship to McCain would not have been very fulfilling to him. It may just be straight-up hero worship, but it's bizarre that he would switch to such a "hero" after McCain. People talk about kompramat but it can't be just because he is (rumored to be) gay ... then again I am not familiar with South Carolina. There have been openly gay Republican congressmen and there's a senator who identifies as bisexual.

Maybe it's just money. An off-the-books gravy train for him.
 
Dave Rogers said:
You're missing the point. As shuttlt has pointed out in another thread, you'd expect the weaker lawsuits to be the first ones to fail. Trump is holding back the real evidence of fraud till he's lulled everyone into a false sense of security, then just when the election thieves are starting to relax, BAM! He'll hit them with the genuine evidence. Apparently this is a common legal strategy rather than an incompetent waste of time and money.

Dave
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It's like Sidney Powell telling Fox about the awesome, overwhelming evidence for millions of votes for Trump she has ... but can't tell anyone anything about.


Making big promises and not delivering is exactly what is causing this shock in Trump supporters and Evangelicals right now: they were promised the Second Coming of Trump by everyone they still trust.
 
Isn't the key question, do they keep the ballot envelopes? It wouldn't matter who the person voted for, just whether the signature on the envelope matched what's on file. (I'm not sure how that file is generated to begin with).

I worried a little big about my ballot - I was so nervous at the time that to me the signature looked a little shaky, bit it passed.

Protip: An old boyfriend taught me that if you hold the signature upside down, it's easier to copy. That's because your own ingrained handwriting habits don't kick it; no muscle memory.

Cursive isn't even taught in most schools anymore; the whole concept of signatures is taking a hit.
 
I'm thinking that we're approaching critical mass.

This nonsense challenging the election is reaching an untenable position. Every lawsuit is failing and Georgia's recount should be completed today or tomorrow.

Today, Trump's legal team are going to trying to get a judge to issue a temporary restraining order to prevent Pennsylvania from certifying the vote which they are scheduled to do Monday. This seems to be case they seem to be hoping can be brought to SCOTUS to disenfranchise 700,000 votes in Philadelphia. This because Philadelphia voters were given an opportunity to cure their votes where in other counties they weren't. It's also the case the lawyers representing Trump withdrew from the case. The replacement lawyer asked for delay since he is new to the case but the judge said no.

If this case is dismissed as I expect it to be, nothing else matters including the Georgia recount.
 
turingtest said:
And even if their "slinging crap against the wall to see what sticks" strategy doesn't work to keep Trump in office, it will, for around 40% of the American population, serve perfectly well to taint Biden's presidency. And the GOP will almost surely work that to their advantage. We saw what they did to a President (Obama) about whose election there was no controversy- "the number one goal is to make him a one-term president"; imagine what they can do, in terms of blocking Biden in any of his policy goals or (say) Supreme Court picks, when they can use a controversy they've created and fed to pretend there's some doubt about the legitimacy of his election. McConnell & Co don't ever have to come right out and call it The Great Election Steal of 2020- it's sufficient for their purposes if all they ever do is imply it, leaving their brain-dead base to do all the inferring necessary. They neuter Biden by getting their base to do all the heavy-lifting of believing his election was a fix.
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Safe-Keeper said:
I think it's more long-term than that. The narrative of a stolen election will fire up his crowd and sow resentment towards the Democrats and liberals. Also, the more lies he can feed them and convince them of, the farther they drift into the post-fact bubble. This will just be another case of competing narratives to them, Trump supporters believing the election was rigged, and liberals, Democrats, and the MSM claiming it wasn't.

Like two competing religious denominations :boggled: .
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Okay, I know I'm going to get stupid crap about "bothsides" stuff, and a bunch of people are just going to dismiss anything I say out of hand because it challenges their perception.

But I am really pretty appalled that self-styled skeptics are completely blind to the similarities at play here.

2016 Election:
Trump can't win this election! He can only win by cheating - with the help of evil foreign interests! Trump is actively and purposefully conspiring with Russia! Members of Trump's team are active foreign assets! Everything they do is corrupt! We need to investigate every single possible angle of Trump and everyone on his team to see if we can find anything at all to support the allegation of him colluding with Russia to win the election!

2020 Election:
Biden can't win this election. he can only win by cheating - with fraudulent votes and illegal voters! Biden's team is actively and purposefully trying to steal the election through fraud! Members of Biden's campaign team and his supporters are cheaters and liars, and the state election teams are helping them! We need to investigate every single vote from every possible angle to see if we can find anything at all to support the allegation of Biden's team cheating in this election!

Different verse, same tune. It started with the constant and unending challenges to Obama's election on the basis of him not being a US citizen. At least in that case, it was mostly citizen-driven hassling and "investigations". Trump's entire presidency has been cast as illegitimate, and he has been under investigation for his entire term, in an effort to demonstrate that his win was illegitimate. Now the same thing is happening to Biden, using vote fraud as the vehicle for the allegations.

It's not going to stop - you know that right?

I fully expect that Biden will spend his presidency being under investigation for wrongdoing. Whether any actual malfeasance took place or not is irrelevant. All that matters is that the seeds of doubt can be sown among the public.
 
We need a chyron running at the bottom of the screen whenever Trump talks: He's lying ... he's lying ... he's lying ... oops, this one is true!"

Got into an argument with a woman whose dog I throw balls for. I had a feeling she supported Trump so I avoided politics. But somehow it came up, and I could tell she had never realized (or was in denial about) Trump's true performance. She said he closed a bunch of factories in China, that Biden was senile (evidence was that he might have said "I'm Joe Biden's husband" when he meant "Jill," but that's unclear), and that one day it would come out how corrupt Joe was. Then she launched into a long and totally unrelated anecdote about how one of her old bosses was cheating by "donating" charity money to himself. That was evidence to her, somehow.

A lot of these people flat don't know what constitutes "evidence," although many can use it in other areas of life. When related to Trump, evidence is anything he or his surrogates say. For now I'm glad for this, because they do not know how to bring before a judge actual evidence, vs. "a counter at my table told me he heard officials saying to change postmarks."

I don't even know how that would work; the post mark is already on the mail I receive.
 
Emily's Cat said:
Okay, I know I'm going to get stupid crap about "bothsides" stuff, and a bunch of people are just going to dismiss anything I say out of hand because it challenges their perception.

But I am really pretty appalled that self-styled skeptics are completely blind to the similarities at play here.

2016 Election:
Trump can't win this election! He can only win by cheating - with the help of evil foreign interests! Trump is actively and purposefully conspiring with Russia! Members of Trump's team are active foreign assets! Everything they do is corrupt! We need to investigate every single possible angle of Trump and everyone on his team to see if we can find anything at all to support the allegation of him colluding with Russia to win the election!
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That actually happened. Cambridge Analytica data mining and microtargeting, Russian trolls and bots flooding social media, DNC email hacking, almost everyone at the top of Trump's election team were busted for dealing under the table with Putin's people ...

Emily's Cat said:
2020 Election:
Biden can't win this election. he can only win by cheating - with fraudulent votes and illegal voters! Biden's team is actively and purposefully trying to steal the election through fraud! Members of Biden's campaign team and his supporters are cheaters and liars, and the state election teams are helping them! We need to investigate every single vote from every possible angle to see if we can find anything at all to support the allegation of Biden's team cheating in this election!
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There's no evidence for this.

Seems to me you are trying very hard to 'normalize' Trump.
 
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Emily's Cat said:
Okay, I know I'm going to get stupid crap about "bothsides" stuff, and a bunch of people are just going to dismiss anything I say out of hand because it challenges their perception.
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Wait, your bothsiderism is both fully expected and challenging to anyone's perception? No. Your perception is clearly "challenged" in the faulty sense, as has been amply demonstrated every time you try the bothsides nonsense.

Emily's Cat said:
But I am really pretty appalled that self-styled skeptics are completely blind to the similarities at play here.

2016 Election:
Trump can't win this election! He can only win by cheating - with the help of evil foreign interests! Trump is actively and purposefully conspiring with Russia! Members of Trump's team are active foreign assets! Everything they do is corrupt! We need to investigate every single possible angle of Trump and everyone on his team to see if we can find anything at all to support the allegation of him colluding with Russia to win the election!

2020 Election:
Biden can't win this election. he can only win by cheating - with fraudulent votes and illegal voters! Biden's team is actively and purposefully trying to steal the election through fraud! Members of Biden's campaign team and his supporters are cheaters and liars, and the state election teams are helping them! We need to investigate every single vote from every possible angle to see if we can find anything at all to support the allegation of Biden's team cheating in this election!

Different verse, same tune. It started with the constant and unending challenges to Obama's election on the basis of him not being a US citizen. At least in that case, it was mostly citizen-driven hassling and "investigations". Trump's entire presidency has been cast as illegitimate, and he has been under investigation for his entire term, in an effort to demonstrate that his win was illegitimate. Now the same thing is happening to Biden, using vote fraud as the vehicle for the allegations.

It's not going to stop - you know that right?

I fully expect that Biden will spend his presidency being under investigation for wrongdoing. Whether any actual malfeasance took place or not is irrelevant. All that matters is that the seeds of doubt can be sown among the public.
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Look, we saw Donny stealing a cookie, and he was caught on camera doing so, but you don't even have a cookie missing and you're accusing Joey of stealing a cookie because "both sides bad." It's transparently bad critical thinking on your part, so stop with the 'true skeptics would all do it,' ok?
 
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