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Trump's Coup d'état.

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Eventually I suppose we can hope that this thread will be moved to conspiracy theories, even if the mainstream media seems to be promoting it currently. I read the conservative blogs and virtually all of them are saying it looks like Biden won, it's okay for Trump to let the process continue, but come January 20 we will have a new President. Nobody is suggesting that Trump should get the state legislatures to name their own slate of electors (well, maybe Gateway Pundit is, but I gave Hoeft up as an idiot years ago).
 
Brainster said:
Eventually I suppose we can hope that this thread will be moved to conspiracy theories, even if the mainstream media seems to be promoting it currently. I read the conservative blogs and virtually all of them are saying it looks like Biden won, it's okay for Trump to let the process continue, but come January 20 we will have a new President. Nobody is suggesting that Trump should get the state legislatures to name their own slate of electors (well, maybe Gateway Pundit is, but I gave Hoeft up as an idiot years ago).
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Trump is actively working against the transition process by not admitting defeat.
 
Brainster said:
Eventually I suppose we can hope that this thread will be moved to conspiracy theories, even if the mainstream media seems to be promoting it currently. I read the conservative blogs and virtually all of them are saying it looks like Biden won, it's okay for Trump to let the process continue, but come January 20 we will have a new President. Nobody is suggesting that Trump should get the state legislatures to name their own slate of electors (well, maybe Gateway Pundit is, but I gave Hoeft up as an idiot years ago).
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Trump Tweeted:

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1327407964404260870

700,000 ballots were not allowed to be viewed in Philadelphia and Pittsburgh which means, based on our great Constitution, we win the State of Pennsylvania!
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EDIT: Just to be clear, this is not "the process" by any sane definition.
 
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Brainster said:
Eventually I suppose we can hope that this thread will be moved to conspiracy theories, even if the mainstream media seems to be promoting it currently. I read the conservative blogs and virtually all of them are saying it looks like Biden won, it's okay for Trump to let the process continue, but come January 20 we will have a new President. Nobody is suggesting that Trump should get the state legislatures to name their own slate of electors (well, maybe Gateway Pundit is, but I gave Hoeft up as an idiot years ago).
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What blogs? These blogs speak more to mainstream conservatism than, say, Sean Hannity? Mark Levine?

I poked my head into National Review's blog. There was a posting about a podcast by The Editors about Biden's win. It garnered over 700 comments (which is much higher than usual), most of them upset that NR was run by sell-outs.

The thing about the conservative press is that many of the mouthpieces are afraid of their audience.
 
d4m10n said:
I've spent a little energy trying to envision how the Trumpers think they can pull this off. From what I can tell—after sitting through the infamous Four Seasons press briefing—the plan is to overturn the results in GA with a hand recount and then overturn PA & MI by somehow getting the courts to declare tens of thousands of votes invalid in major metropolitan centers such as Philly and Detroit.

ETA: If you want "disaster porn" just imagine how the residents of those cities would respond to judicial disfranchisement overturning the statewide result.
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Operation Death Blossum?
 
The votes they could possibly invalidate wouldn't all be Biden votes though. What was the typical ratio of mail-ins, two to one or something? So to gain 100,000 votes they'd need 300,000 invalidated.
 
Oddly enough, there are over 300K mail in ballots in the USPS system that were never scanned as delivered.
 
Modified said:
The votes they could possibly invalidate wouldn't all be Biden votes though. What was the typical ratio of mail-ins, two to one or something? So to gain 100,000 votes they'd need 300,000 invalidated.
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No court would ever invalidate 700000 votes. At worst, they would require that they be recounted.
 
cosmicaug said:
Sorry. I was responding to a post referring to faithless electors (which I assume refers to already appointed electors choosing to change their vote) which made my response confusing since that is not what I was trying to address. I meant to address the notion of a state legislative body replacing electors with their own choice and that is what the article I linked to was referring to (which is clear in what I quoted).

We have a politician saying that the legislature would not have such a role under "normal circumstances". This implies that this legislator thinks that the legislature could actually have such a role in some circumstances (just not normal ones). That does not mean that everyone thinks this but at least some Republican legislators in PA seem to think this.
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When there were a couple faithless electors a decade+ ago they cast their votes for Sanders instead of Clinton.

I don't know if there have been any faithless electors that voted for the other party's candidate.

I already posted a number of times (in other threads and this one) challenging the legislators going against their state's popular vote. There have been articles (selling scare mongering, IMO) but there hasn't been any evidence presented that goes beyond the hypothesis. It could happen. I could join the next X-rocket to the ISS. Doesn't mean there's a chance in Sagan's Garage it would happen.
 
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angrysoba said:
Hmmm...I wish that were true.

2016 | 2020
62,984,828 | 72,349,962 (and counting...)
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In 2016 there were 135,719,982 total votes. In 2020 there were 153,470,021. That is an increase of about 13%.

Also Libertarian candidate Johnson got a much higher percentage of the vote in 2016 than Jorgensen in 2020.

We can adjust the 2016 percentages to account for those changes and then do a comparison.

In 2016 Trump got 46.4%, Clinton 48.5%, Libertarian 3.3%, Green 1.1% and Other 0.6%.

In 2020 Trump got 47.4%, Biden 50.9%, Libertarian 1.2%, Green 0.2% and Other 0.3% (based on current counts).

We can adjust the 2016 percentages by giving Trump the difference in Libertarian votes and Clinton the difference in Green votes.

Trump gets 46.4% + 3.3% - 1.2% = 48.5%
Clinton gets 48.5% + 1.1% - 0.2% = 49.3%

That would mean from 2016 to 2020 we would have Trump going from 48.5% to 47.4% for a loss of 1.1%.

Clinton/Biden goes from 49.3% to 50.9% for a gain of 1.5%.

The Other category has a loss of 0.4%. Those candidates were Constitutional Party and a conservative Independent. So we could count that loss against Trump for a total loss of 1.5%.

The gives us Trump down 1.5% and Democrats up 1.5%. At least somewhere in the 1.0% to 1.5% range. Not a big change either way.

(Jorgensen got enough votes that if even about 70% of those had gone toward Trump he would have won.)
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
I don't know if there have been any faithless electors that voted for the other party's candidate.
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For President, only Samuel Miles in 1796. At that time electors cast two votes for President and the person with the most votes (over a majority) became President and the second-place finisher became Vice-President.

Miles was pledged to to Federalists John Adams and Thomas Pinckney, but he cast his vote for Democratic-Republican Thomas Jefferson and Pinckney. Adams won by two electoral votes, so it didn't end up mattering. Miles went on to run successfully for Congress as a Democratic-Republican.

Miles voting for Pinckney wasn't really spilling his vote between two parties. It was part of a plan by Hamilton to have Adams and Pinckney win with tied votes so that it would go to Congress where they would select Pinckney as President and Adams and Vice-President. That plan was foiled by a number of electors voting for Adams but abstaining on the second vote. That led to the split party of Federalist Adams as President and Democratic-Republican and Vice-President.

A similar plan almost worked in the very heated 1800 election between Adams and Jefferson. Adams lost, but Jefferson and his Vice-Presidential running mate Aaron Burr tied for the most votes. That meant the decision between those two went to Congress. Federalists threatens to make Burr President and Jefferson Vice-President in order to embarrass the Democratic-Republicans. That led to a drawn out battle until a couple Congressmen relented and allowed Jefferson to become selected for President out of fear that to do otherwise would likely result in the dissolution of the United States and due to Hamilton's strong objection to Burr (who would go on to kill Hamilton in a duel).

Those elections resulted in the 12th Amendment establishing that electors cast separate votes for President and Vice-President.

There have been a handful of electors who have cast the vote for President as pledged but voted for the opposing party candidate for Vice-President for various reasons.
 
d4m10n said:
If the legislative audit drags out past the various deadlines, who decides whether PA sends electors?
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There isn't really a deadline Pennsylvania for certification of the electors. Counties have to report final results by November 23, which is also the last day for a candidate to contest the election.

Under Federal law any resolution to a contested election must be resolved within six days before the meeting of electors (meaning by December 8 this year) in order to be conclusive. The meeting of electors is December 14.

But it doesn't really matter much if that deadline is missed. If not done by December 8, the electors could be challenged during the reading of the votes in the joint session of Congress. If there is a challenge, vote counting stops and the U.S. House nd Senate each vote on whether to approve the challenge. But Democrats will control the House, so the challenge will not be upheld.

The General Assembly (the state legislature) has the authority to hear contests of some elections, but for Presidential and Vice-Presidential elections state law grants exclusive authority to the Commonwealth Court to resolve a contested election or review the actions of the Secretary of State.

The state legislature may have some authority to demand that the Secretary of State turn over certain information so that the legislature can conduct its own audit. The could turn over the results of that audit to Trump so that he could contest the election in Commonwealth Court.

The state legislature could try to send its own slate of electors to Congress. But if Congress gets more than one set of electors from a state, the House and Senate vote on which one to select. If the vote is split (which is likely) it defaults to the electors certified by the executive of the state (the Governor).

The state legislature cannot, on its own, delay or change the certification of electors by the Governor.
 
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