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Trump's Coup d'état.

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Skeptic Ginger said:
There's no evidence the SCOTUS is going to overturn the election and install Trump.

The others do not have the power to support a coup.
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Additionally, I sincerely doubt the SC would ever do so. Regardless of their personal political preferences, most Judges in general, and ones qualified for SC positions in particular, tend to take their jobs pretty seriously.

Honestly folks. You've got me and Skeptic Ginger in agreement on this. If nothing else, that ought to give you pause to consider whether you're maybe overreacting a bit, hmm?
 
angrysoba said:
I never said that. That’s desperate.

I said I see no evidence his base is shrinking. You were the one arguing otherwise.

Now you are arguing that Trump is slowly accepting his loss. I see no evidence of that either.
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{assume popcorn smiley here}
At this point, I'm wondering how long it will be before someone accuses SG of "carrying water" for Trump.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
If Trump supporters really believed the election was stolen, they would start a General Strike or indeed make a March on Washington or anything beyond just voicing their opinion.

The vast majority of Trump supporters only do so when it doesn't cost them anything.
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Which is why these polls are mostly meaningless. If they asked "Do you believe Joe Biden is actually a vampire who feeds on Republican children and their pets, then secretly pees in their parents' lemonade?", 40% would answer yes. Results are hugely skewed by support or hatred for the person in question.
 
angrysoba said:
Huh??? What are you talking about?

You are using the Tweets from a journalist quoting an aide as evidence that Trump is taking baby steps to accepting a loss.

My point is that this is not evidence!!!
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You have claimed that because Trump's Tweets are crazy the aide's words are suspect.

"so now we can stop believing that tweet quoting the aide"

Edited to add after reading your other post: I didn't say it was absolute proof did I? Convincing or not, it's still evidence.

Trump's Tweets OTOH, have proven completely unreliable.
 
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It occurs to me that if this situation were reversed and happening in say, Venezuela, USA would be claiming a coup had already taken place.

So far we have:

Failure to accept the result
Excluding the legitimate winner from information on security and Covid
Pushing ahead with budget planning for 2021
Secretary of State planning for inauguration of Trump's 2nd term

Hasn't the coup already happened?
 
d4m10n said:
Only if they don't actually have a plan to overturn the apparent results. Seems like an odd thing for anyone to infer, given that they aren't mounting legal and/or legislative challenges to the electoral process in the states with close margins except for the ones they appear to have narrowly lost. The question isn't whether they hope to overturn the results, the only question is how they are hoping to get there. Again, I recommend the Four Seasons video in which Rudy straight up talks about equitable relief from the courts.
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Do you have evidence the legislators have a plan?
 
Emily's Cat said:
Here's the problem in a nutshell:

{Has not accepted the results that are not yet officially nailed down} <> {Will always refuse to accept the results no matter what and will stage a co****
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In addition, we have a long history in Donald Trump of someone who has always been seen acting with maturity, honor & integrity. We can extrapolate from this, as well as from his empathetic & selfless character, that he wouldn't subvert democracy, if he could, merely because it might keep him out of jail for at least another 4 years.

Repeat after me, Trump is not like a normal president; Trump is not like a normal person.

Maybe some members of his cabinet can trick him or otherwise "coerce" him into desisting even as he continues to deny the results (presumably with the hope of continuing on as the "true president" in exile for the next few years until he gets tired, dies or runs again —whichever comes first). That is, pressure from people managing him might get him to make a non-concession concession. That's probably about as good as we can hope for.
 
cosmicaug said:
Right now they are trying very hard to figure out if they can do it. It's hard & they probably can't and if they do not do it, that is why they will not (it is probably not something that they would do if doing so changed nothing about the election so unless Trump has more than that, they won't —....
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The electors aren't random people.
Conservative talk radio show host Mark R. Levin declared in an all-caps Tweet Wednesday that Republican state legislatures “have the final say over choosing the electors” and told them to to “do your constitutional duty.”

Twitter has since flagged the message — which was retweeted by Republican National Committee spokesperson Elizabeth Harrington and Donald Trump Jr. — as possibly misleading. ....

State political parties each choose a slate of electors ahead of the general election. ...

“Electors generally hold a leadership position in their party or were chosen to recognize years of loyal service to the party,” ...
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IOW the electors have already been chosen and they were chosen by the parties. The Democrats would have already chosen the electors in the states where Biden won.
 
It came down to tenths of a percentage point in Arizona, Georgia, and Wisconsin. Can we just acknowledge that it sucks to lose an election you'd otherwise win because of razor thin margins in three states? The only way it would suck more is if a foreign government stole information, a "showboat" re-opened a BS criminal investigation 11 days before the election, you were leading in the polls all along, and you ended up getting millions more votes overall.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
The electors aren't random people.IOW the electors have already been chosen and they were chosen by the parties. The Democrats would have already chosen the electors in the states where Biden won.
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Sorry. I was responding to a post referring to faithless electors (which I assume refers to already appointed electors choosing to change their vote) which made my response confusing since that is not what I was trying to address. I meant to address the notion of a state legislative body replacing electors with their own choice and that is what the article I linked to was referring to (which is clear in what I quoted).

We have a politician saying that the legislature would not have such a role under "normal circumstances". This implies that this legislator thinks that the legislature could actually have such a role in some circumstances (just not normal ones). That does not mean that everyone thinks this but at least some Republican legislators in PA seem to think this.
 
The Atheist said:
It occurs to me that if this situation were reversed and happening in say, Venezuela, USA would be claiming a coup had already taken place.

So far we have:

Failure to accept the result
Excluding the legitimate winner from information on security and Covid
Pushing ahead with budget planning for 2021
Secretary of State planning for inauguration of Trump's 2nd term

Hasn't the coup already happened?
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No, it hasn't already happened.

Failure to accept the result - the official results aren't technically out yet. The apparent results are, well, obvious to most anybody, but they aren't technically done yet.

Excluding the legitimate winner from information on security and Covid - this is a dick move, but it's not a requirement to share that information. And it's not uncommon for access to that information be delayed while the results are being contested - it was delayed for Bush too.

Pushing ahead with budget planning for 2021 - I'm less certain here, but I'm under the impression that budget planning for the coming year routinely starts in the prior year, even if that's an election year. I don't think this is at all out of the ordinary, and IIRC, the incoming president has opportunity to make budget adjustments once he takes office.

Secretary of State planning for inauguration of Trump's 2nd term - I'm currently planning for a major effort at work, for a thing that is contingent. The thing itself may not happen, but planning has to go forward as if it were certain, otherwise we wouldn't have time to get it done. That may not be the case here, but I'll refer you back to item 2, and remind you that it's Trump, so a jackass move shouldn't surprise anyone.

And at the end of all of that... The coup hasn't actually happened, because, well, it' hasn't actually happened. Trump has not stayed in office beyond his term, the election results haven't been overturned or ignored. You might think that Trump is in the process of attempting a coup, which is your prerogative, but it still hasn't yet occurred.
 
Emily's Cat said:
And it's not uncommon for access to that information be delayed while the results are being contested - it was delayed for Bush too.
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Hence the bits of the 9/11 report recommending a smoother, faster transition.

ETA: Might should make Americans wonder whether the current "coup" (whether theatrical or actual) is actively endangering national security.
 
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Emily's Cat said:
No, it hasn't already happened.

Failure to accept the result - the official results aren't technically out yet. The apparent results are, well, obvious to most anybody, but they aren't technically done yet.
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Has any candidate ever failed to acknowledge the result in these circumstances? W isn't comparable, because the election hinged on hundreds of votes in one state, not hundreds of thousands in multiple states.

Emily's Cat said:
Excluding the legitimate winner from information on security and Covid - this is a dick move, but it's not a requirement to share that information.
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I'm reminded of the 1984 election in NZ where the loser failed to accept the Opposition's position, and remarkably, his own party told him to pull his head in.

Has a similar situation ever occurred in USA?

Emily's Cat said:
And it's not uncommon for access to that information be delayed while the results are being contested - it was delayed for Bush too.
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As above, Bush isn't relevant, and the result isn't being contested. The Trumpers have presented zero evidence. It's being cried about, but not actually contested.

Emily's Cat said:
And at the end of all of that... The coup hasn't actually happened, because, well, it' hasn't actually happened.
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The apocryphal analogy of boiled frogs springs to mind.
 
The Atheist said:
Has any candidate ever failed to acknowledge the result in these circumstances? W isn't comparable, because the election hinged on hundreds of votes in one state, not hundreds of thousands in multiple states.



I'm reminded of the 1984 election in NZ where the loser failed to accept the Opposition's position, and remarkably, his own party told him to pull his head in.

Has a similar situation ever occurred in USA?



As above, Bush isn't relevant, and the result isn't being contested. The Trumpers have presented zero evidence. It's being cried about, but not actually contested.



The apocryphal analogy of boiled frogs springs to mind.
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None of that suggests that a coup has already occurred.
 
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