Allegations of Fraud in 2020 US Election

[johnny karate]

Quit moving the goalposts.

What goal posts am I moving?

If it’s a valid claim of election fraud, that is legally actionable.

Has legal action been taken?

 

[johnny karate]

Because they have a political line to push.


Accurate with relation to what? You said "falsified". It was not falsified and I never implied it was falsified.


No you aren't you are rewording what I said to say something different. I never said or implied it was falsified, that was your invention.


No I didn't.


No I don't. You are adding all these words in to make claims I didn't make and then demanding I defend them. They are you words, you defend them.

In what specific way is an affidavit that wasn’t falsified untrustworthy?

 

[shuttlt]

You don't seem to get that the individual who makes a claim is obligated to present actual evidence and prove it. Until they do it is considered false and unproven.

But that would mean almost every political story in the NYT and WAPO should be considered false and untrue. He provided primary evidence in the video which is more than NYT and WAPO would normally do to evidence their claims. It may be insufficient to prove voter fraud/election fraud but that isn't the same as saying it is debunked.

What is provable is that Project Veritas, the souce for these claims is a notorious for mounting coordinated disinformation campaigns.

What does disinformation mean in this context? Is the snapchat video "disinformation"? How? As far as I'm aware it wasn't edited or changed.

 

[Stacyhs]

That's just a collection of assertions that it isn't true. It may be that it isn't true, but it clearly isn't debunked.

You didn't read it, did you? And that's a rhetorical question.

 

[acbytesla]

But that would mean almost every political story in the NYT and WAPO should be considered false and untrue. He provided primary evidence in the video which is more than NYT and WAPO would normally do to evidence their claims. It may be insufficient to prove voter fraud/election fraud but that isn't the same as saying it is debunked.


What does disinformation mean in this context? Is the snapchat video "disinformation"? How? As far as I'm aware it wasn't edited or changed.

You are carrying the water for inveterate liars. Not every story in WAPO and the NY Times is correct. But they have a thousand times better track record than Project Veritas or Qanon.

 

[dirtywick]

What does disinformation mean in this context? Is the snapchat video "disinformation"? How? As far as I'm aware it wasn't edited or changed.

They frequently present videos as unedited or unchanged which are nothing of the sort. They frequently lie about who they are or hire actors to play roles, and selectively edit the interactions and present the editors footage as factual and complete. It’s a joke to put these guys out there like it’s a legit source.

 

[Meadmaker]

Florida woman charged with falsifying absentee signature and found with 31 completed absentee ballots. Link to arrest warrant.

2012?

For a local election.

 

[Stacyhs]

The link to huff post did not debunk anything. The huff article closes with a quote from the prosecuting attorney stating that allegations of fraud are far-reaching. Then said attorney recuses herself because the charged individual was working for her campaign.

I didn't say the story was debunked now did I? I said the same story ran in 2012...meaning it had absolutely nothing to do with this election even though the intention was clearly to imply it did.

Trump supporters keep bringing up vote fraud stories from the past that have zero to do with this election because they don't have anything else. I don't care about examples from the past. Unless there is evidence of significant voter fraud in THIS election, it doesn't matter!

 

[Lurch]

Just because Rudy or USPS guy are on video does not by itself lend great weight to their testimony. Ct-ers can really get wrapped up in this belief that video clips are powerful or even unassailable proof of something.

Like someone I knew who saw some cable channel 'documentary' claiming megalodon still might exist as proof that the beast indeed lived because it was shown on TV.

 

[dirtywick]

Yeah they had some idiot talking about laptops not too long ago.

 

[Stacyhs]

Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Oh okay, then. Can you provide a link to the pending criminal investigation into this totally-not-debunked claim of election fraud?

Quit moving the goalposts.

The goalposts are firmly still in place. This involved Ilhan Omar, who is a particular and frequent target of Trump's ire. Do you honestly think that if there were any truth to this that Trump would not have been all over this with his legal department? Get real.

 

[pgwenthold]

It’s from 2012 and involved Republicans.

You and shuttit are both just awful at this.

It is really hard for me to not out and out insult someone at this point. This is either serious incompetence or deliberately lying.

 

[ServiceSoon]

You don't seem to get that the individual who makes a claim is obligated to present actual evidence and prove it. Until they do it is considered false and unproven.

What is provable is that Project Veritas, the souce for these claims is a notorious for mounting coordinated disinformation campaigns.

You cannot label something false until it has been proven false. You can use subjective labels like baseless, unsubstantiated, or unproven.

 

[smartcooky]

Just because Rudy or USPS guy are on video does not by itself lend great weight to their testimony. Ct-ers can really get wrapped up in this belief that video clips are powerful or even unassailable proof of something.

Until, of course, that "powerful or even unassailable proof" video conflicts with their pre-conceived notions or their worldview, at which point that video instantly becomes fakery by the Deep State^TM

 

[ServiceSoon]

2012?

For a local election.

Does this instance of being a local election exclude it from occurring at a larger scale? The examples of voter fraud in the United States are legion. Some of these examples involve conspiracies including 30 to 60 individuals prosecuted by the FBI. Let me know when you want to get real about protecting the sanctity of the democratic process.

 

[wareyin]

You cannot label something false until it has been proven false. You can use subjective labels like baseless, unsubstantiated, or unproven.

That's false. The dictator for whom you are carrying water (in a bucket with no bottom) labels anything he doesn't like as false. What rule or law is stopping him? And by extension, what rule or law then stops anyone else?

 

[smartcooky]

It’s from 2012 and involved Republicans.

You and shuttit are both just awful at this.

THIS

I have to believe at this point that they are simply pulling anything and anything from any source and just throwing it out there in the hope that no-one will notice.

 

[Meadmaker]

Does this instance of being a local election exclude it from occurring at a larger scale? The examples of voter fraud in the United States are legion. Some of these examples involve conspiracies including 30 to 60 individuals prosecuted by the FBI. Let me know when you want to get real about protecting the sanctity of the democratic process.

Well, one of them involves 30-60 people.

But I don't understand you last point. I definitely want to get real about protecting the sanctity of the democratic process. I think all charges of voter fraud need to be given the attention they deserve. If you have something, bring it on.

When you bring on a case from 2012 in a local election, I'm thinking that's about all you have.


And I'm serious about that. I really do feel that the voting process is sacred. It needs protection. Allegations of fraud need to be investigated. And.....this part is important......allegations of fraud by losing candidates need to be backed by some evidence other than "I know we were going to win, so if we lost it must be fraud." Doing that is really dangerous, especially when it's done by the President of the United States.

So by all means, investigate, but you also have to honor the results of the election. The best evidence available right now is that Joe Biden won the election. If you have better evidence than has already been presented, by all means bring it forward for examination. That's why I started this thread.

 

[wareyin]

Does this instance of being a local election exclude it from occurring at a larger scale?

Yes. Also the fact that it was not in this election excludes it from occurring now.

The examples of voter fraud in the United States are legion.

When you say "legion," do you really mean something like 10-20 cases spanning the entire history of the United States? Because that's what you're presenting as "legion."

Some of these examples involve conspiracies including 30 to 60 individuals prosecuted by the FBI. Let me know when you want to get real about protecting the sanctity of the democratic process.

Oooh, 30 to 60 individuals? Gasp, that totally means the literally tens of thousands it would take to do it nationwide is totally plausible. And, spoiler alert: the 30 to 60 individuals were caught. The sanctity of the democratic process was protected by their being caught and punished, and hopefully any means they used have been protected against. Then again, Republicans in the Senate have flat out refused to even allow any Election integrity laws to be voted on, so I think we all know who doesn't actually want the sanctity of the democratic process to be protected.

 

[ServiceSoon]

It’s from 2012 and involved Republicans.

You and shuttit are both just awful at this.

I don’t care who is cheating. Step one is admitting we have a problem so we can address it. The governor of Florida has used some shady election tactics.

Here is an article from the New York Times from 2012 which discusses mail in ballot fraud. The security of mail in ballots certainty hasn’t improved since then.

If you truly believed in the democratic process these examples of fraud should cause enough concern to discuss how we can improve the process and make it more secure. What is the harm in making the voting process more secure?

In 2012 election experts said this:

Voting by mail is now common enough and problematic enough that election experts say there have been multiple elections in which no one can say with confidence which candidate was the deserved winner.

And now these same experts tell us there is nothing to worry about? As the next president of the United States would say, come on man.