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Cont: 2020 Presidential Election part 3

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Captain_Swoop said:
The Republican Party are going all in! Either they stage an all out coup or they disgrace themselves for generations to come.
This is madness.
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Or they think havving Trump out campaiging will gin up voters for the Georgia seantorial electins in January...most likely scenario.
 
Stacyhs said:
From the Washington Post Article:
Hopkins’ allegations, without his name, were first aired last week by Project Veritas, an organization that uses deceptive tactics to expose what it says is bias and corruption in the mainstream media. Hopkins agreed to attach his name to the allegations late last week. He was instantly celebrated by Trump supporters.
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Veritas - ethically challenged, to say the least.
 
Emily's Cat said:
I guess that's a difference - I don't see there being any cost other than the space you give it in your head. All of Trump's bitching and posturing will, at best, introduce some delay. It's a distraction and a waste of time. But it has no material impact on the welfare of the country, nor does it have any affect on the future of the country. It's mostly annoying and embarrassing.
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This is the part where I disagree, without necessarily disagreeing with the rest of what you say. Seriously- you don't see any future problems arising from the fact that one of the two major political parties in our country is making an absolute *********** of our electoral process, for no other apparent reason than their political gain? They have already, in the last few years, set the precedent that the only thing that matters in politics is having the numbers needed to obstruct the other party- no need to be right, just have the technical right. They're making mouth-noises about protecting the integrity of the process and the confidence the American voter should have in it, while everything they're actually doing is to the effect of destroying that integrity and confidence. Do you really believe all those people that are being deliberately riled by manufactured evidence to think that Trump is a victim of fraud and theft are just going to sit back calmly and say "oh, well, guess we were wrong. Best of luck to Biden"? They think they are victims as well as Trump, that it's their victory that has been stolen. Evidence and reason aren't going to work to convince them out of something that evidence and reason had no part in convincing them into. And that will be the way going forward.
 
Meadmaker said:
I saw some Biden 46 t-shirts. Maybe they will have to be Biden 47 t-shirts.

Seriously, though, I could imagine Trump doing it, even without the pardon part. He's just the sort of guy who would think walking out would be preferable to waiting around until his last day.
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This was my thinking too. I could even imagine him doing it in part to annoy all those who'd bought 'Biden #46' t-shirts.
 
Emily's Cat said:
I guess that's a difference - I don't see there being any cost other than the space you give it in your head. All of Trump's bitching and posturing will, at best, introduce some delay. It's a distraction and a waste of time. But it has no material impact on the welfare of the country, nor does it have any affect on the future of the country. It's mostly annoying and embarrassing.
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turingtest said:
This is the part where I disagree, without necessarily disagreeing with the rest of what you say. Seriously- you don't see any future problems arising from the fact that one of the two major political parties in our country is making an absolute *********** of our electoral process, for no other apparent reason than their political gain? They have already, in the last few years, set the precedent that the only thing that matters in politics is having the numbers needed to obstruct the other party- no need to be right, just have the technical right. They're making mouth-noises about protecting the integrity of the process and the confidence the American voter should have in it, while everything they're actually doing is to the effect of destroying that integrity and confidence. Do you really believe all those people that are being deliberately riled by manufactured evidence to think that Trump is a victim of fraud and theft are just going to sit back calmly and say "oh, well, guess we were wrong. Best of luck to Biden"? They think they are victims as well as Trump, that it's their victory that has been stolen. Evidence and reason aren't going to work to convince them out of something that evidence and reason had no part in convincing them into. And that will be the way going forward.
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I agree with Turing. I definitely believe it has a material affect on the country.

Truth matters. Gaslighting creates a great cognitive dissonance with much of the public. It divides us even further. I can resolve differences with people based on the facts, but not if we distrust us each other to what the facts are. I use to have cordial, civil debates with people and then share a beer with them. This is impossible if they think you're a liar and/or the devil.
 
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This time, Republicans didn't manage to suppress the vote before the election, so now they try to do it afterwards.

The idea that the people elect their leaders is just upside down for them.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
This time, Republicans didn't manage to suppress the vote before the election, so now they try to do it afterwards.

The idea that the people elect their leaders is just upside down for them.
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Heck, they're calling for Republican election officials to resign because they did not to a sufficient enough job or rigging the election of failing to ensure a fair election.
 
eerok said:
Disgrace, madness. Just another day for the GOP.

There's no doubt that they all know that Trump can't win, so they're also faithless, dishonest, sleazy, unprincipled, self-serving... but most of all cowardly, because they know Trump can lash out at them.
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No. I actually doubt it. I think they do believe he can win.
 
Emily's Cat said:
Do you have a source for the highlighted?
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A source? Sure. here it is:-
“We have to win the election. We can’t play games. Go out and vote. Do those beautiful absentee ballots, or just make sure your vote gets counted. Make sure because the only way we're going to lose this election is if the election is rigged,” Trump told the group of supporters at the outdoor campaign event. “Remember that. It’s the only way we’re going to lose this election, so we have to be very careful.”

“The only way they’re going to win is that way. And we can’t let that happen”
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If that source isn't good enough for you then just google it. You will find it's not the only time he has said something similar.

Prefereably one with context?
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Context matters of course, but it's hard to think of a context where such statements don't mean precisely what they appear to mean. Oh, perhaps he was only joking? Nope, not buying it.

My recollection (which could very well be faulty) is that he said he wouldn't accept it without making sure it was legitimate.
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Weasel words. Trump's definition of 'legitimate' is him winning.

I don't believe your recollection is faulty, I think it's selective. A reasonable person would take what he said as his word, not try to find a way out. 'legitimate' is one of those outs. Latching onto this word indicates a desperate desire to 'legitimize' statements that are indefensible. But it won't work here. Because we know what Trump means when he says 'legitimate'.
 
Dr.Sid said:
No. I actually doubt it. I think they do believe he can win.
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and then?
Do they think the 80% of Americans who believe Biden has been elected will just accept a reversal based on nothing but allegations?

Republicans act as if this is the last Election in history.
 
Dr.Sid said:
No. I actually doubt it. I think they do believe he can win.
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They can't win. They might be able to steal it though. But this absolutely would be the end of democracy in the US.

This said, I want a little message discipline among the Democrats. Every interview and speech should lead with the popular vote margin.

How we are pleased that Four million six hundred forty million more Americans voted for President Elect Joe Biden than Donald Trump.

This election was not close and voice of such a large majority requires to be heard if the United States stands for anything.
 
Trump Tweets

“I don’t care what state you’re in, this computer voting system is wide open to fraud and intervention.” @LouDobbs

True, and wait until you see what’s coming!
 
turingtest said:
This is the part where I disagree, without necessarily disagreeing with the rest of what you say. Seriously- you don't see any future problems arising from the fact that one of the two major political parties in our country is making an absolute *********** of our electoral process, for no other apparent reason than their political gain? They have already, in the last few years, set the precedent that the only thing that matters in politics is having the numbers needed to obstruct the other party- no need to be right, just have the technical right. They're making mouth-noises about protecting the integrity of the process and the confidence the American voter should have in it, while everything they're actually doing is to the effect of destroying that integrity and confidence. Do you really believe all those people that are being deliberately riled by manufactured evidence to think that Trump is a victim of fraud and theft are just going to sit back calmly and say "oh, well, guess we were wrong. Best of luck to Biden"? They think they are victims as well as Trump, that it's their victory that has been stolen. Evidence and reason aren't going to work to convince them out of something that evidence and reason had no part in convincing them into. And that will be the way going forward.
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I agree 100% with you.
 
Babbylonian said:
It's either a vast, nationwide conspiracy or Trump and his pissant followers are entirely full of ****.
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It's either a vast, nationwide conspiracy or Trump and his pissant followers are entirely full of ****. - the Deplorables.

It's either a vast, nationwide conspiracy or Trump and his pissant followers are entirely full of ****. - everyone else.

Actually that's not fair. The Deplorables also know that they and Trump are entirely full of ****, but they think that if they pretend it's a vast nationwide conspiracy they just might be able to steal the election.
 
acbytesla said:
They can't win. They might be able to steal it though. But this absolutely would be the end of democracy in the US.

This said, I want a little message discipline among the Democrats. Every interview and speech should lead with the popular vote margin.

How we are pleased that Four million six hundred forty million more Americans voted for President Elect Joe Biden than Donald Trump.

This election was not close and voice of such a large majority requires to be heard if the United States stands for anything.
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Latest results I'm seeing show Biden with 76.9 million, Trump with 71.8 million. That's five million, a nice, easily-digested round number; and there's no reason to think that margin will get smaller.

So, I agree with your messaging, if for no other reason than that a popular vote margin like that must really get under Trump's skin, given how he reacted to a much smaller one four years ago. "Five million more! That's not a steal, that's a plain defeat."
 
Captain_Swoop said:
The Republican Party are going all in! Either they stage an all out coup or they disgrace themselves for generations to come.
This is madness.
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I don't think they are courting disaster.

The fact is that even if all this bluster amounts to nothing, many folks will still believe the election was stolen. The GOP fought the good fight against evil, even if they were thwarted. This defeat will be remembered.

It's not as if the bulk of Republicans think that endless Benghazi hearings were a waste of time or that Hillary was innocent of whatever nefarious scheme that was about.
 
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