Allegations of Fraud in 2020 US Election

[The Don]

And that's the "Well if bought off the refs that's the same thing as playing fairly" mentality.

You can't "Don't hate the player, hate the game" us into a dictatorship.

It seems that the GOP can - or at least is willing to give it the good ol' college try.

IMO it will be devastating for US democracy if the GOP are successful and President Trump remains in the White House - unless of course they are actually able to provide evidence which shows hundreds of thousands of votes cast illegally.

Of course I suppose they can change the definition of illegal post-hoc to, for example, throw out all postal votes in Pennsylvania.

 

[pgwenthold]

If the two teams can't agree on what the rules of the game are then the congressional delegations are the final ref. I'd be stunned if it got there.

The two teams agreed to the rules. Ahead of time. The Pennsylvania legislature passed laws about how to operate the elections. They did that. They followed the rules.

Trump is now crying the rules aren't fair because he lost.

 

[shuttlt]

If the two teams can't agree on what the rules of the game are then the congressional delegations are the final ref. I'd be stunned if it got there.

I suppose behind them the final final ref is the People and the fallout that would come from what ever is decided. Same with impeachment. Each congress creature has to go back to their state and answer for their vote.

 

[Bob001]

I fired an employee at my store but never followed through on the paperwork after he refused to leave so I let him stay which was a disaster. I wonder if we are gonna end up with two presidents come Jan 20. The fact that so many countries aren't calling Biden is telling; they must know something that we don't.

So you didn't really fire him. You just said "Get out," and he said "You can't do that." But in the case of Trump, our paperwork is in order. And world leaders are congratulating Biden, just not the ones who have been his best pals. Putin hasn't said a word.

(CNN)A stream of world leaders congratulated President-elect Joe Biden and Vice President-elect Kamala Harris on their victory in the 2020 US presidential election on Saturday, with many striking a jubilant tone on social media.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/07/americas/biden-global-reaction-election-intl/index.html

 

[JoeMorgue]

I suppose behind them the final final ref is the People and the fallout that would come from what ever is decided. Same with impeachment. Each congress creature has to go back to their state and answer for their vote.

You mean the voice of the people that the Right isn't accepting and lying about and fighting?

 

[johnny karate]

The only way to find out would be to go look. Somebody should go look, with witnesses representing the stakeholders close enough to witness the checks.

The only way to find out if you have committed pedophilia is to go look. And until we have looked, the proposition that you have committed pedophilia is equally valid to the proposition that you haven’t.

Agreed?

If not, why?

 

[shuttlt]

The two teams agreed to the rules. Ahead of time. The Pennsylvania legislature passed laws about how to operate the elections. They did that. They followed the rules.

The rules are not necessarily 100% precise, or consistent. I believe Trump argued before the election that late ballots shouldn't be counted based on a constitutional argument and the supreme course in their wisom decided not to make a decision until after the election.

Trump is now crying the rules aren't fair because he lost.

I think Trumps argument is that the rules say he won. You are disagreeing with him about the rules. The way that disagreement gets decided seems to be first legally within the state, then the supreme court, then politically in the state, and then politically in congress.

 

[shuttlt]

You mean the voice of the people that the Right isn't accepting and lying about and fighting?

I think the argument is about whether the result represents the voice of the people. You are assuming your own conclusions.

 

[Olmstead]

The rules are not necessarily 100% precise, or consistent. I believe Trump argued before the election that late ballots shouldn't be counted based on a constitutional argument and the supreme course in their wisom decided not to make a decision until after the election.


I think Trumps argument is that the rules say he won. You are disagreeing with him about the rules. The way that disagreement gets decided seems to be first legally within the state, then the supreme court, then politically in the state, and then politically in congress.

What rules where?

Trump's argument is that he won because he's Trump, so people should go find something, anything, that will make it so. Do you disagree that this is Trump's position?

 

[johnny karate]

I think the argument is about whether the result represents the voice of the people. You are assuming your own conclusions.

Upon what evidence is this argument based?

 

[Dave Rogers]

I think Trumps argument is that the rules say he won. You are disagreeing with him about the rules.

I wonder in what universe Trump could possibly be construed as saying anything that coherent. He initially claimed that he'd won before the ballot counting had even been completed in key states, then demanded that the count be stopped in the states he was winning but continued in the states he was losing. He then got a bit confused and started demanding that the count stopped in states he was losing. He's now saying that the states in which he lost should change the rules to make it so he won, but has no interest in applying rules consistently. There is no rationale to his claim that he's won, no invocation of what the rules are or should be; he's simply expecting that if he screams "I won!" loudly enough and often enough, everybody will award him the win. He's a spoiled child whom nobody has ever stood up to. Failing to stand up to him now will make him even worse.

Dave

 

[Myriad]

I think Trumps argument is that the rules say he won.

The rules would say he won, if they were the rules of Quiddich, and Mitch McConnell caught the Golden Snitch sometime in the late evening of Election Day.

Unfortunately for Trump's claim, neither of those conditions appear to be true.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Pres. Trump’s legal team has challenged a grand total of 180 rejected ballots in Maricopa County. Biden leads in AZ by 14,746 votes -

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/arizona/2020/11/09/arizona-election-results-maricopa-county-challenge-involves-180-ballots/6229767002/

Really closing that lead!

These kinds of tactics would work in a Bush v Gore type of scenario. Recall that Florida was decided by a margin of 537 votes. Biden's lead is simply too big here for any such strategy to pay off.

 

[Dave Rogers]

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/arizona/2020/11/09/arizona-election-results-maricopa-county-challenge-involves-180-ballots/6229767002/

Really closing that lead!

It looks like they've determined that there are 180 votes that may have been incorrectly rejected, with no information as to whom they were votes for. The end result may as easily be to increase Biden's vote as Trump's.

Dave

 

[pgwenthold]

It looks like they've determined that there are 180 votes that may have been incorrectly rejected, with no information as to whom they were votes for. The end result may as easily be to increase Biden's vote as Trump's.

Dave

Well, given the current distribution in mail-in votes in Arizona, we would expect that batch to make a difference of a 20 votes in Trump's favor. They only need to find 1000 more examples and they will take Arizona.

That would bring Biden's EC vote count down to 295.

 

[slyjoe]

Well, given the current distribution in mail-in votes in Arizona, we would expect that batch to make a difference of a 20 votes in Trump's favor. They only need to find 1000 more examples and they will take Arizona.

That would bring Biden's EC vote count down to 295.

Trump picked up 140 votes on Monday out of 6K votes. There were 38K left, and Biden leads by almost 15K. Trump's people should be able to do the math.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

Why do I get the feeling that this kind of counting is going to continue right up until November 2024?

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Why do I get the feeling that this kind of counting is going to continue right up until November 2024?

I don't think so. Trump may deny the legitimacy of any result in which he isn't the winner, but his consent is not required for states to certify their results. They will certify and the electoral college will vote regardless of what Trump says. He can try to keep rehashing the same old nonsense, but the states will move right along without him.

 

[acbytesla]

I don't remember Hillary shouting fraud after the election and the Democrats launching a blind search for irregularities.

Not only did Hillary concede the election the next morning but Obama invited Trump to the White House to begin the transition. It should be noted that Hillary lost Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania by smaller margins then Trump just lost them.

 

[slyjoe]

Not only did Hillary concede the election the next morning but Obama invited Trump to the White House to begin the transition. It should be noted that Hillary lost Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania by smaller margins then Trump just lost them.

Did you run a Benford Law analysis on 2016 results, hmmm?