"OK, Cindy, we need something that suggests Incestual Necrophilia..."

[corplinx]

I agree with you 100%!

Frankly, I'm happy to say I'm NOT associated with the side of this debate that thinks nothing of poking fun at this photo either for the subject matter or for who the woman represents. No matter the extent of your rhetorical skills or your philosophical prowess, your reputation and what little respect you had dropped ten notches. You're like a bunch of immature brats gloating in your nastiness.

Jeez, you hippies and commies sure like to rationalize someone who whored their grief out to Vanity Fair. Its time to stop making excuses.

And since I am an immature brat gloating in my nastiness, I'm editing to add that she is lieing on his grave to better hear him rolling in it.

 

[Jocko]

If you think you're so brave, why don't you go to the Vietnam memorial and make fun of some of the old farts there touching the wall and crying bucketloads? I've seen photos of grown men lying in front of that memorial, why don't you idiots make fun of them? They can't possibily be sincere - that friggin war was over 25 years ago.

It's not the tears that smack of cynicism, Mephisto, it's the choreography. If you saw someone prostrating themselves on the Vietnam Memorial for a camera crew, wouldn't you smell something funny?

 

[ImaginalDisc]

Jocko, what is wrong with it if it is staged? It's a form of non-violent protest.

 

[Mephisto]

It's not the tears that smack of cynicism, Mephisto, it's the choreography. If you saw someone prostrating themselves on the Vietnam Memorial for a camera crew, wouldn't you smell something funny?

I agreed that the photo appeared contrived, but what is the difference between a photographer asking Sheehan for a picture of her lying on her son's grave and a photographer asking Bush to wear makeup and appear as though he's not worried about the war in Iraq?

Frankly I'm just surprised that Skeptic reads Vanity Fair!

 

[corplinx]

Jocko, what is wrong with it if it is staged? It's a form of non-violent protest.

What's she protesting again? That we toppled a regime that was a supporter of terrorism and would have resumed WMD programs more earnestly once sanctions were lifted?

Cindy "I wish Saddam could have dug up the centrifruge he had buried" Sheehan?

Don't question her patriotism though.

 

[Jocko]

Jocko, what is wrong with it if it is staged? It's a form of non-violent protest.

No one is arguing that it's staged. Of course it's staged. The point of debate is whether it is tasteful or not. It's not a question of being "wrong" in any significant sense.

I think it's wrong in that it's disgusting, not in that it's illegal. I fully support Cindy Sheehan's right to marginalize herself, her friends, family, belief system and overall message in whatever media she chooses. I fully support her right to sell out to any radical group that offers her a microphone. I fully support her right to make a laughingstock of herself, debase herself like a five-dollar political crack whore. This is America, after all.

All I ask is the same right to point, laugh, and express my opinion of her actions. Don't blame me for having so much company.

 

[Jocko]

I agreed that the photo appeared contrived, but what is the difference between a photographer asking Sheehan for a picture of her lying on her son's grave and a photographer asking Bush to wear makeup and appear as though he's not worried about the war in Iraq?

Frankly I'm just surprised that Skeptic reads Vanity Fair!

Except I wasn't talking about Bush's makeup, or even Cindy's for that matter. I think everyone agrees that the photo is contrived/staged/whatever.

I guess it's this: would you support the idea of your mother acting this way, if you were in similar circumstances?

 

[Mephisto]

Jeez, you hippies and commies sure like to rationalize someone who whored their grief out to Vanity Fair. Its time to stop making excuses.

And since I am an immature brat gloating in my nastiness, I'm editing to add that she is lieing on his grave to better hear him rolling in it.

Yeah, and a lot of us patriotic, disabled Vietnam veterans sure like to rationalize too. You're right, it IS time to stop making excuses, you neo-cons go on and on about family values and supporting the troops, but don't hestiate to ridicule an innocous photograph while defending statements like, "I feel that the insurgency is in its final throes."

 

[ImaginalDisc]

What's she protesting again? That we toppled a regime that was a supporter of terrorism and would have resumed WMD programs more earnestly once sanctions were lifted?

Cindy "I wish Saddam could have dug up the centrifruge he had buried" Sheehan?

Don't question her patriotism though.

It's irrelevant what she's protesting, she has a right to do so. Jocko, you're attempting to trivialize the point of her protest by ridiculing the method. Therefore, others have a right to debate the merit of your opinion, it's topical. Oh, and arguing from the majority, that you have plenty of company, doesn't make make your opinion more or less right.

 

[Jocko]

Yeah, and a lot of us patriotic, disabled Vietnam veterans sure like to rationalize too. You're right, it IS time to stop making excuses, you neo-cons go on and on about family values and supporting the troops, but don't hestiate to ridicule an innocous photograph while defending statements like, "I feel that the insurgency is in its final throes."

Yet, Sheehan supporters defend her statements that the insurgents are "freedom fighters" and her son "died for Israel." Accountability cuts both ways.

 

[Jocko]

It's irrelevant what she's protesting, she has a right to do so. Jocko, you're attempting to trivialize the point of her protest by ridiculing the method. Therefore, others have a right to debate the merit of your opinion, it's topical.

Why don't you pay attention to who you're responding to? Sheesh, what a clown.

 

[ImaginalDisc]

I guess it's this: would you support the idea of your mother acting this way, if you were in similar circumstances?

If I were dead, how exactly would I be able to support anything, except by the structural integrity of my corpse? That aside, hell yes.

 

[ImaginalDisc]

Why don't you pay attention to who you're responding to? Sheesh, what a clown.

The first scentence was directed to corplinx, the rest to you. Care to respond, or would you like to further nit-pick those who disagree?

 

[Jocko]

If I were dead, how exactly would I be able to support anything, except by the structural integrity of my corpse? That aside, hell yes.

Okay, you respond to Corplix and try to bitch me out.
Then you answer a question I posed to Mephisto, because he's a vet. Not you, because you are not.

Why don't you just take a powder, get a cup of coffee, and come back when you feel like reading a little more carefully?

 

[RandFan]

Jocko, you're attempting to trivialize the point of her protest by ridiculing the method.

I can't speak for Jocko but it seems he is simply ridiculing her. That is our Ed given right as Americans. We mock and ridicule those who gain prominence. Particularly those who have a political message (see Bush is a chimp and Clinton cigar jokes).

 

[rikzilla]

If you think you're so brave, why don't you go to the Vietnam memorial and make fun of some of the old farts there touching the wall and crying bucketloads? I've seen photos of grown men lying in front of that memorial, why don't you idiots make fun of them? They can't possibily be sincere - that friggin war was over 25 years ago.

Mephisto, you know what's wrong with this comparison...I know you do. A private moment of grief for lost friends or family is entirely appropriate. The person doing so is simply expressing their emotions. They are unselfconciously "in the moment"...oblivious to all else but their memory and grief.

Cindy Sheehan OTOH has repeatedly used her son's untimely death to develop her own celebrity. I too felt sorry for her before I learned that she had had her meeting with Bush early on and deemed it satisfactory until her head was turned by MoveOn.org et al. Suddenly she needed to meet with Bush again...what had changed? Nothing except that Cindy had a nice raft of talking points provided by the usual suspects.

Now as her celebrity wanes she is seen draping herself over her son's grave in a professional photo shoot. Forgive my cynicism, but I believe she has disgraced her son's memory for her own personal moment in the national spotlight.

Your "old farts" crying at the wall are real. Cindy is a poseur. Literally.

-z

 

[Jocko]

The first scentence was directed to corplinx, the rest to you. Care to respond, or would you like to further nit-pick those who disagree?

Hey, if you want to crawl into bed with a derranged antisemite like she would crawl into her son's coffin (if it got her the cover of Time), then be my guest. That's your right.

But do not condescend to tell me that I cannot, should not, ought not point at Sheehan and those hopeless fruitloops who surround her and ignore the clear, cynical manipulation that drives that sick woman. You're free to support who you want, parrot whatever message you want, but you do not have the right or the power to alter the clear and obvious realities surrounding your choice.

Talk about nit-picking those who disagree... God protect me from those who would assure me their idea of "free speech." I already know what it is, thank you.

 

[ImaginalDisc]

Okay, you respond to Corplix and try to bitch me out.
Then you answer a question I posed to Mephisto, because he's a vet. Not you, because you are not.

Why don't you just take a powder, get a cup of coffee, and come back when you feel like reading a little more carefully?

You ask a question of Mephisto, without directing the question to him by name, in a public forum, with open discussion, call me a clown for doing what you've been doing as well, and then continue the ad hominem? Enough. Let's stick to the topic. You can insult me all you care to somewhere else.

 

[ImaginalDisc]

Talk about nit-picking those who disagree... God protect me from those who would assure me their idea of "free speech." I already know what it is, thank you.

I'm criticizing your opnion, not your right to an opinion.

 

[Jocko]

I can't speak for Jocko but it seems he is simply ridiculing her. That is our Ed given right as Americans. We mock and ridicule those who gain prominence. Particularly those who have a political message (see Bush is a chimp and Clinton cigar jokes).

I ridicule Sheehan as a person because she represents an opposing ideology to mine. This is an ancient, time-honored activity, and I feel no need to explain it to a Bushitlerhalliburton!!1! knee-jerker like imaginaldisc.

I ridicule her methods because they are so crassly lowbrow.

And of course, I ridicule bozos like imaginaldisc for falling for such a cheap ploy, and the disingenuous strawman that I would somehow silence Sheehan's "dissent."

I wouldn't silence her for the world. I'm having far too many laughs.