Cont: Biden for President? Pt 2

[Delphic Oracle]

In any case, with only one more sunset until the big day, the chances this discussion winds its way up to the circle of senior advisors is growing slim.

Let's save our perrenial disagreeability for the upcoming several days of counts, recounts, and court battles, shall we?

 

[dirtywick]

Thanks, China.

China, the Dems, Antifa, BLM, the media. Trump can’t seem to handle any of them and there’s always an excuse.

Can’t get it done is can’t get it done.

 

[ChrisBFRPKY]

No, it is NOT, NOT, NOT, NOT True.

What is about the Republican position that makes them think that a lie told often enough somehow becomes true?

If you had an income in the US that you paid Federal Income Taxes on, you paid less after the Trump tax cuts. Fact.
Don't take anyone's word for it, look up your individual tax bracket and compare that with the Obama/Biden era individual bracket amounts. You'll find it factual that you paid less income tax after the Trump tax cuts. Anyone who tells you differently is lying and you should remain skeptical as it's up to you to prove it to yourself.

 

[ChrisBFRPKY]

ChrisBFRPKY, do you think Trump's base really made a careful assessment of whether they were better off in 2016 than 2012?

Seems to me most people just follow some narrative or gut feeling before they do any of that.

Doesn't everyone ask themself that when considering candidates? I do. I can't speak for the Trump or Biden base.

Consider the ramifications of NOT asking yourself that question. How can you judge if an economic system is working for you or against you? Just my thoughts. I'm sure the Biden campaign has taken this into consideration as the focus has remained on Covid and Trump.

 

[Stacyhs]

If paying a bit less Federal income taxes is the only thing I base whether or not I'm "better off" on, then that's pretty damn sad.

 

[BobTheCoward]

Doesn't everyone ask themself that when considering candidates? I do. I can't speak for the Trump or Biden base.

Consider the ramifications of NOT asking yourself that question. How can you judge if an economic system is working for you or against you? Just my thoughts. I'm sure the Biden campaign has taken this into consideration as the focus has remained on Covid and Trump.

That is a stupid question because it doesn't consider what was affected by the government and what wasn't.

Many people asking themselves this question is a recipe for dunning kruger.

 

[Meadmaker]

Gary has more money in his pocket as a result of Trump's tax cuts. This is true for ALL Americans across the board, not just the wealthy ones.

But perhaps Gary has been affected by the 2nd quarter Real GDP loss of 31.4% because of Covid.

Yet with a 2020 third quarter Real GDP growth of 33.1% perhaps Gary is a bit better off than he was before Covid. The recovery is indeed a tight "V" shape.

From Gallup:

"During his presidential campaign in 1980, Ronald Reagan asked Americans, "Are you better off today than you were four years ago?" Since then, this question has served as a key standard that sitting presidents running for reelection have been held to.

Gallup's most recent survey found a clear majority of registered voters (56%) saying they are better off now than they were four years ago, while 32% said they are worse off."

Those numbers aren't mentioned in my post.

A 31.4% loss followed by a 33.1% gain results in an 8.8% loss.


However, what matters in the voting booth is perception, not reality, so maybe Gary feels better off.

If he has a job, and most people do, he may very well be better off. I know I feel economically better off than since Covid began. I don't have to put gas in my car, and I have more money left over because I don't buy restaurant meals or spend money on going to movies.

 

[BobTheCoward]

"are you better off...." Seems like a real empathy lacking view of life.

 

[Delvo]

"During his presidential campaign in 1980, Ronald Reagan asked Americans, "Are you better off today than you were four years ago?"

Doesn't everyone ask themself that when considering candidates?

No. The fact that they had to have the idea of doing so suggested to them should have been your first hint about that. When deciding what to do about a big-picture decision, most people's automatic first idea of how to do that, which your slogan was invented to try to pull them away from, would be to consider what's good & bad in the big picture, not just "screw the other 300 million, just let me see what I can get for myself out of this".

(And the fact is that we aren't better off now anyway, no matter how many times Trumpers repeat the lie that we are, so even if the Republicans' campaign to try to get us all to think like them were successful, it would still result in their loss.)

 

[Stacyhs]

I wonder if the families of the 231,000 people who have died this year from Covid 19 feel better off because they got cheap gas and a few more bucks in their pockets?

 

[The Great Zaganza]

I wonder if the families of the 231,000 people who have died this year from Covid 19 feel better off because they got cheap gas and a few more bucks in their pockets?

You think after medical bills they have more bucks in their pockets?

 

[Craig4]

If paying a bit less Federal income taxes is the only thing I base whether or not I'm "better off" on, then that's pretty damn sad.

Even if it was true this year and last year, it won't be true next year. The law that contained the tax cut requires an increase in taxes on those earning less the $75,000 a year starting in 2021 with scheduled increases until 2027. You also can no longer deduct your state income tax which helped a lot of middle income earners.

https://www.newsweek.com/trump-cut-middle-class-taxes-gop-increase-next-year-1543832

 

[Delvo]

...

 

[Segnosaur]

If you had an income in the US that you paid Federal Income Taxes on, you paid less after the Trump tax cuts. Fact.

While the changes in the tax brackets mean that most people pay less federal tax, that does not necessarily mean that they are better off.

- Some deductions were eliminated, so there are some people who end up paying more as a result.

- The removal of the individual mandate may mean that medical insurance becomes unavailable to many people (since the purpose of the mandate was to spread the risk... without that, insurance premiums may rise)

- The tax cuts have resulted in an increase in the federal deficit. This means that while some people may have more money in their pocket now, they will end up losing out in the future, when either the government has to cut services or raise taxes in order to handle the debt.

- Some of the tax changes are set to expire in 2025, which for some people means they will end up paying more in taxes in the future than if the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act had not been passed in the first place. (The tax cuts that most benefit the wealthy will remain in place however.)

 

[Darat]

Ok, relevant to this election: how did Trump do for "Gary from Gary, IN." I'm not asking if Trump won in 2016, I'm asking how Trump improved Gary's life in 2020. Assuming he is still alive, hasn't had any loved ones seriously sick or dead from Covid, etc. Oh, and assuming that Gary and all his family/friends weren't affected by the recession or the currently over 8% unemployment.

"He made the liberals mad" seems to be the improvement a lot wanted to see.

 

[wareyin]

I am a bit shocked at how Gary keeps getting changed from "line supervisor in a technical trade who could probably handle computer programming and has enough sense to see how government has clearly ********d him" into "bumbling dufus who doesn't know whats best for him."

That's the first stumbling block we liberals could maybe stop hitting every time.

Here's the thing: Gary is a fictional character invented to tell a story. Gary isn't real. If you want to know how the real people in that situation are feeling you have to go talk to them, not just make up someone.

Here's some real people in that situation. Do they line up with your fictional character?
https://prospect.org/labor/workers-rally-against-trumps-broken-promises/

 

[Delphic Oracle]

Here's the thing: Gary is a fictional character invented to tell a story. Gary isn't real. If you want to know how the real people in that situation are feeling you have to go talk to them, not just make up someone.



Here's some real people in that situation. Do they line up with your fictional character?

https://prospect.org/labor/workers-rally-against-trumps-broken-promises/

And yet this carnival barker is running tight against a highly credentialed rival...again. That gives me a much bigger sample size to work with, too.

So I'm gonna lean towards feeling like there's something to it.

 

[Mader Levap]

Those numbers aren't mentioned in my post.

Then go on, take 100, lower it by 31.4% and then use that number to move it up by 33.1%. Compare result to original number. I hope calculator usage is not beyond your cognitive capabilities.

I can wait.

 

[Delphic Oracle]

Those ~30% figures are "annualized growth" not the growth that occurred within the quarter.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Even beyond the pure mathematics of it, it is insane to go "Well I lost a bunch then gained an equal amount back and that's the same as having never lost it in the first place."