Riots, looting, vandalism, etc.

[Distracted1]

Agreed. That's the problem. Police are well known for being far too willing to shoot people. It should be a dead last resort, not the first and only. The few times I have had guns pointed at me, it was by police. I was never armed or threatening, and not even a bad guy (wrong place and time stuff). It was the first and only means of possible, maybe, kinda-sorta, could be theoretically dangerous threat mitigation that was even on the table. Straight to lethal, before the threat was assessed.



That's a different problem, although I partially agree. In the current culture, a white guy being shot is not news because it is somehow assumed that he must have deserved it (Dan Shavers family glances over). A black victim raises automatic questions about motivation and guilt, and people taking sides, often blindly.

indeed.

How many police deaths do you think would occur yearly if lethal force were the "first and only" response of the Philly P.D., as you seem to believe?
More or less than the 400+ homicides we have had so far this year?

 

[Distracted1]

https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/new...-area-targeted-by-looters-police-say/2576152/

11 people shot in one neighborhood. In one night.
But lets not lose sight of the fact that this guy:
https://www.bigtrial.net/2020/10/amid-riots-inky-mythologizes-walter.html

Was "bi-polar"

 

[Nakani]

No, there really aren't.

Were you there?

We all know it's not magic. It's about being white.

Well I suppose being white does help because as children, white people are taught to respect the police. There isn't a cultural duty to stand up to authority.

 

[Skeptic Tank]

 

[Ziggurat]

Are police frequently let off on this basis? I don't recall it being an issue in any of the cases I've read.

Yeah, that argument doesn't really make sense. If someone gets shot 10 times and dies, I don't think they need to pinpoint only one of those bullets as the one that killed him. And the cops can't exactly argue that the bullets that hit him came out of nowhere coincidentally at the same time that they discharged their weapon a bunch of times and missed every time.

 

[Thermal]

Is there anyone they are not entrusted to protect?

You say "those who" as if there is a class of individual they are not charged with protecting. Who would that be? And why would it not include "themselves"?

I have no idea what you are saying here. "Those who" does not mean there is a
"those who aren't". It is a descriptor, not a qualifier.

Of course it would include themselves. Read what I wrote: they put imaginary threats to themselves over real lives of the citizenry.

 

[Thermal]

https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/new...-area-targeted-by-looters-police-say/2576152/

11 people shot in one neighborhood. In one night.
But lets not lose sight of the fact that this guy:
https://www.bigtrial.net/2020/10/amid-riots-inky-mythologizes-walter.html

Was "bi-polar"

Are you seriously pulling that card?

Do mentally ill people have less rights to be alive than you do? Do scary guys who grew up in bad neighborhoods (them being bad is a simple survival mechanism) deserve street execution whenever the mood strikes police? Before you call that hyperbolic, read your second link, at the end of the article. Police quoted as saying '**** that commissioner, we're doing what we want'.

 

[Distracted1]

Are you seriously pulling that card?

Do mentally ill people have less rights to be alive than you do? Do scary guys who grew up in bad neighborhoods (them being bad is a simple survival mechanism) deserve street execution whenever the mood strikes police? Before you call that hyperbolic, read your second link, at the end of the article. Police quoted as saying '**** that commissioner, we're doing what we want'.

Which "card" are you talking about?

Do "mentally ill" people have more right to life than others? Chasing cops (or anyone else) around with a knife should get anyone shot- mentally ill or not.

Also, what are your feelings on the 406 "street executions" that have taken place already this year in Philadelphia?

And thank you for enlightening me on the "scary guys who grew up in bad neighborhoods"- and are therefore no longer responsible for their behavior, Having grown up in Detroit in the seventies and eighties, and lived in Tacony the last twenty years, I need some enlightenment.

 

[Distracted1]

I have no idea what you are saying here. "Those who" does not mean there is a
"those who aren't". It is a descriptor, not a qualifier.

Of course it would include themselves. Read what I wrote: they put imaginary threats to themselves over real lives of the citizenry.

Are you asserting that the man chasing them around with a knife in this instance was an imaginary threat?

 

[Mumbles]

Were you there?


Well I suppose being white does help because as children, white people are taught to respect the police. There isn't a cultural duty to stand up to authority.

I know that when I was a wee lad, my father said "Boy, when the po-po pulls up on you, you tell them 'Yo **** you, pig! I'm blacker than midnight, you can't tell me what to do!' and you walk away with a gangsta lean."

The hell are you talking about? the entire speech was that cops could kill you on a whim and get away with it, so you'd better do whatever they say and ask for an adult to come and help you out before you say anything. It was always the white kids that were chatting with cops or arguing with them. And catching cabs.

 

[Thermal]

Which "card" are you talking about?

Do "mentally ill" people have more right to life than others? Chasing cops (or anyone else) around with a knife should get anyone shot- mentally ill or not.

Well, you came right out and said it, anyway. Kudos for that.

Also, what are your feelings on the 406 "street executions" that have taken place already this year in Philadelphia?

My feelings are they are a "but what about the thugs" argument, and has nothing to do with this thread. No, police don't get to say "it's a jungle out there so we gots to shoot them and move on to the next", without repercussions. Other homicides, presumably by criminal civilians, has nothing whatsoever to do with police handling of a call for mental health assistance.

And thank you for enlightening me on the "scary guys who grew up in bad neighborhoods"- and are therefore no longer responsible for their behavior, Having grown up in Detroit in the seventies and eighties, and lived in Tacony the last twenty years, I need some enlightenment.

Sorry man, don't care where you grew up. I only care about what you posted. "This guy" links to pics and tales of thuggery. You were playing the "he was a thug and deserved it" card. The cops are not The Punishers.

 

[Thermal]

Are you asserting that the man chasing them around with a knife in this instance was an imaginary threat?

If you think that was chasing, you are one out-of-shape mother ******.

Like the Jake Blake killing, it was a slow, deliberate walking parade, not a chase.

Wallace was a threat. But what we are talking about (and you and others trying to distract from) is the response from police. Wallace appeared stopped at the first shots, and started dropping. The police continued to fire till his head was on the ground. The first shot or two were arguably justified. The rest were recreational.

 

[Distracted1]

Well, you came right out and said it, anyway. Kudos for that.



My feelings are they are a "but what about the thugs" argument, and has nothing to do with this thread. No, police don't get to say "it's a jungle out there so we gots to shoot them and move on to the next", without repercussions. Other homicides, presumably by criminal civilians, has nothing whatsoever to do with police handling of a call for mental health assistance.



Sorry man, don't care where you grew up. I only care about what you posted. "This guy" links to pics and tales of thuggery. You were playing the "he was a thug and deserved it" card. The cops are not The Punishers.

"This guy" links to the actual guy in question. The one who was chasing the police around with a knife. Is this man an "imaginary" threat?

 

[Thermal]

"This guy" links to the actual guy in question. The one who was chasing the police around with a knife. Is this man an "imaginary" threat?

No, the link goes to an ad hoc ad hom character assassination. On the day of the police killing, he was walking around slooooooooooooowwwwwwwlllllllyyyyy with a knife. Trying to reframe this as a high speed chase is a little telling, no?

And yes, of course Wallace's threat was real. Those extra round being fired off? They were against an imaginary threat. He was not menacing the officers as he fell to the ground. But they kept shooting, making sure they killed him, not just stopped him.

 

[Distracted1]

If you think that was chasing, you are one out-of-shape mother ******.

Like the Jake Blake killing, it was a slow, deliberate walking parade, not a chase.

Wallace was a threat. But what we are talking about (and you and others trying to distract from) is the response from police. Wallace appeared stopped at the first shots, and started dropping. The police continued to fire till his head was on the ground. The first shot or two were arguably justified. The rest were recreational.

You are objecting to the use of the term "chasing", but "execution" is a fine term whenever someone ends up dead- got it.

 

[Distracted1]

No, the link goes to an ad hoc ad hom character assassination. On the day of the police killing, he was walking around slooooooooooooowwwwwwwlllllllyyyyy with a knife. Trying to reframe this as a high speed chase is a little telling, no?

And yes, of course Wallace's threat was real. Those extra round being fired off? They were against an imaginary threat. He was not menacing the officers as he fell to the ground. But they kept shooting, making sure they killed him, not just stopped him.

I claim "high speed"?
The police were backing up- he was following. I don't think he was trying to turn himself in, do you?

 

[Distracted1]

No, the link goes to an ad hoc ad hom character assassination. On the day of the police killing, he was walking around slooooooooooooowwwwwwwlllllllyyyyy with a knife. Trying to reframe this as a high speed chase is a little telling, no?

And yes, of course Wallace's threat was real. Those extra round being fired off? They were against an imaginary threat. He was not menacing the officers as he fell to the ground. But they kept shooting, making sure they killed him, not just stopped him.

Extra? Who knows. Possibly, but possibly not.
People have been shot six or seven times- then gotten up to cause more trouble. Like this man:
https://www.redandblack.com/bidinge...deo_7d7f03c2-9ce7-11e9-859e-db2177413e35.html

 

[Thermal]

Extra? Who knows. Possibly, but possibly not.
People have been shot six or seven times- then gotten up to cause more trouble. Like this man:
https://www.redandblack.com/bidinge...deo_7d7f03c2-9ce7-11e9-859e-db2177413e35.html

Outliers and rarities do not justify "making sure he is dead". Police have a responsibility to stop shooting when a suspect is down, just like you or I would. You can't walk up to a guy lying on the ground and empty the mag in him because "Hey who knows he might get back up". And yes, that's precisely what your reasoning leads to.

Police sometimes have to shoot. They do not have to keep shooting when the suspect is actually falling, as the cops did here. What was Wallace, a ninja or carnival knife thrower who was going to stick one in the cops on the way to the asphalt?

 

[Distracted1]

Outliers and rarities do not justify "making sure he is dead". Police have a responsibility to stop shooting when a suspect is down, just like you or I would. You can't walk up to a guy lying on the ground and empty the mag in him because "Hey who knows he might get back up". And yes, that's precisely what your reasoning leads to.

Police sometimes have to shoot. They do not have to keep shooting when the suspect is actually falling, as the cops did here. What was Wallace, a ninja or carnival knife thrower who was going to stick one in the cops on the way to the asphalt?

I see.
It seems to me that your argument boils down to justifying the rioting, looting, and ongoing destruction of my city is justified because the police- while shooting a man coming at them with a knife- one whom they had repeatedly warned while backing away from- used "too many bullets" (although an exact determination of how many bullets is not too many is yet to be made)

I reject that out of hand. Anyone participating in any kind of mayhem stemming from this incident is just opportunistically partaking in the joy of a mob mentality for its' own sake- and deserves only the respect attributable to one doing that, which is very little.

 

[Nakani]

I know that when I was a wee lad, my father said "Boy, when the po-po pulls up on you, you tell them 'Yo **** you, pig! I'm blacker than midnight, you can't tell me what to do!' and you walk away with a gangsta lean."

I'm pretty sure me and you would be good friends.

The hell are you talking about? the entire speech was that cops could kill you on a whim and get away with it, so you'd better do whatever they say and ask for an adult to come and help you out before you say anything. It was always the white kids that were chatting with cops or arguing with them. And catching cabs.

Admittedly, I don't know a lot about Black culture, could you explain to me who is this Uncle Tom fellow and what is his relationship to someone just called, "The Man"?