'Freezing cold water may protect against dementia'

I dunno. I once swam in a snow-melt fed river, in the Sierras. 40F ? First, it was cold getting in. Then for a couple minutes it was invigorating. Then it was "I want to get out of here. Now." I guess my core was getting cold? So, no thanks.
 
Jungle Jim said:
Thanks for the response but you didn't address my question. I'd like to know how often, over what period of time would one have to partake of this therapy for it to become effective. For example, one hour, three time a week for the rest of my life? Would that work or is there another scope of treatment?
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The research by Nature hasn't been released in a paper yet. AFAIAA there hasn't been any guidelines issued as to how much you should do. I expect, like any form of exercise, it would be ongoing and regular so there is nothing to prevent you designing your own programme. Perhaps forming a swimming club, like these guys at Hampstead Ponds.

Step forward Martin Pate, one of a small group who swim throughout the winter at the unheated open-air lido on Hampstead Heath in London.

He and the other swimmers voluntarily made themselves hypothermic on a regular basis he told her in an email, and would therefore be ideal subjects of a study.

Prof Mallucci agreed, and during the winters of 2016, 2017 and 2018, her team tested for the protein in winter swimmers.

The researchers used members of a Tai Chi club who practise beside the pool but never actually swim, as a control group.

The Cambridge team found that a significant number of the swimmers had markedly elevated levels of RBM3.

All of them become hypothermic, with core temperatures as low as 34C.

None of the Tai Chi group showed an increase in RBM3 levels or experienced these very low body temperatures.
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https://www.bbc.com/news/health-54531075
 
eerok said:
How long do I have to stick my head in the freezer to be as smart as I vaguely remember I think I was?

Why don't I just settle for whatever ice cream I find, since I'm there?
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This reminds me of a news story I once read about some pushy parents who made their kids study in a freezing cold kitchen as they thought it helped them intellectually.
 
casebro said:
I dunno. I once swam in a snow-melt fed river, in the Sierras. 40F ? First, it was cold getting in. Then for a couple minutes it was invigorating. Then it was "I want to get out of here. Now." I guess my core was getting cold? So, no thanks.
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But at least you will have gotten - as the Americans so quaintly say - a few extra synapses as a result.
 
I've been taking all my showers cold for nearly ten months now. (Except for a few weeks in the summer when I was sick, on the same rationale that exercise also isn't recommended if you're sick.) Cold tap water isn't as cold as many natural water sources (here it bottoms out at about 10°C in winter) but then again polar swimmers and Shinto misogi practitioners don't do it every day. Unless they're Wim Hof. That dude's amazing.

It would be nice if it staves off dementia but that's not why I've been doing it, obviously. It's very refreshing, really pleasant even though it's not comfortable, because those are two different things. It's also better for my skin (and hair—early on, my wife asked me what new hair product I was using; I told her she was welcome to try it but she wouldn't like it...).
 
I wonder if there's a similar effect with cold air? Of course, with the thermal exchange difference and no wind it would take a lot longer.

I have sometimes found myself quite comfortable at 10 degrees F when I'm bundled up with no wind and only my face exposed. But I know there's a heat bubble involved there, too.
 
William Parcher said:
Anyone who says they've had enough of that cold water would automatically qualify as not demented. If they stay in it until hypothermia then they are demented.
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The core temperature they suggest is required is in fact the defining temperature for hypothermia.
 
Let's hope the 'cold shock protein' can be easily synthesised, so no-one will need to risk hypothermia to benefit from this discovery.
 
Pixel42 said:
Let's hope the 'cold shock protein' can be easily synthesised, so no-one will need to risk hypothermia to benefit from this discovery.
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Problem is, would you want to take one of these RBM3 tablets regularly up to forty years in advance when you might not even be a dementia risk?

AIUI the protein was discovered as key in animals who hibernate for the winter. One third of their synapses - or whatever - died off completely, yet come spring they were miraculously restored on reawakening.

However, kudos to anyone who can find a preventative for this terrible illness that will kill up to 25% of us.
 
More broadly, regular mild stress - so called hormesis - has been shown to have protective effects and or lengthen life and health span. Cold, exercise, calorie restriction...
 
Louden Wilde said:
More broadly, regular mild stress - so called hormesis - has been shown to have protective effects and or lengthen life and health span. Cold, exercise, calorie restriction...
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Do you mean generally, or specifically the telomere thing? (Given you speak of life span.)

Exercise, sure: but would you put exposure to cold in the same category, and calorie restriction as well? Are the latter two also, like exercise, established science (as opposed to likely speculations)?
 
Chanakya said:
Do you mean generally, or specifically the telomere thing? (Given you speak of life span.)

Exercise, sure: but would you put exposure to cold in the same category, and calorie restriction as well? Are the latter two also, like exercise, established science (as opposed to likely speculations)?
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I mean overall life/health-span (the latter being the the portion of an organisms life in which they are reasonably good health, e.g. mobile, functional). Calorie restriction had been shown to extend life/health span in rats as far back as the 1930s - it has since been shown to work in pretty much every organism tested. Obviously we can't in test this in humans as rigorously as we'd like (i.e. by by going through the whole lifespan), but biomarkers suggest this is the case with us as well. An even better biomarker than telomeres (IMO, and others) is the epigenetic clock
Note this method can also estimate when you are likely to die

Evidence is increasing for those other two. When I left academia a few years ago (where I had done some environment/epigenetics work), I spent a year at a biotech working in this area, and so got pretty up on the literature. Just finishing work and frankly don't feel like digging all the refs up right now. Worth noting that these same stressors can have protective effects in other areas: e.g.

Protection against renal ischemia-reperfusion injury through hormesis? Dietary intervention versus cold exposure
Dietary restriction (DR) and fasting (FA) induce robust protection against the detrimental effects of renal ischemia-reperfusion injury (I/RI). Several mechanisms of protection have been proposed, such as hormesis. Hormesis is defined as a life-supporting beneficial effect resulting from the cellular responses to single or multiple rounds of (mild) stress. The cold exposure (CE) model is a stress model similar to DR, and has been shown to have hormetic effects and has proved to increase longevity. CE is considered to be the most robust method to increase metabolism through activation of brown adipocytes. BAT has been considered important in etiology of obesity and its metabolic consequences.
 
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Thank you, @Louden Wilde. As usual, a very informative post from you!


Louden Wilde said:
I mean overall life/health-span (the latter being the the portion of an organisms life in which they are reasonably good health, e.g. mobile, functional). Calorie restriction had been shown to extend life/health span in rats as far back as the 1930s - it has since been shown to work in pretty much every organism tested. Obviously we can't in test this in humans as rigorously as we'd like (i.e. by by going through the whole lifespan), but biomarkers suggest this is the case with us as well. An even better biomarker than telomeres (IMO, and others) is the epigenetic clock
Note this method can also estimate when you are likely to die
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Interesting to know: I hadn't been aware of this. (Although that's no surprise, given that about the only thing I knew of the genetic aspect of aging was that telomere-length theory, and that because it's so widely covered in the popular 'press'! :) )


Evidence is increasing for those other two. When I left academia a few years ago (where I had done some environment/epigenetics work), I spent a year at a biotech working in this area, and so got pretty up on the literature. Just finishing work and frankly don't feel like digging all the refs up right now. Worth noting that these same stressors can have protective effects in other areas: e.g.

Protection against renal ischemia-reperfusion injury through hormesis? Dietary intervention versus cold exposure
Dietary restriction (DR) and fasting (FA) induce robust protection against the detrimental effects of renal ischemia-reperfusion injury (I/RI). Several mechanisms of protection have been proposed, such as hormesis. Hormesis is defined as a life-supporting beneficial effect resulting from the cellular responses to single or multiple rounds of (mild) stress. The cold exposure (CE) model is a stress model similar to DR, and has been shown to have hormetic effects and has proved to increase longevity. CE is considered to be the most robust method to increase metabolism through activation of brown adipocytes. BAT has been considered important in etiology of obesity and its metabolic consequences.
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Right, very VERY interesting! (Although TBH there was a great deal there, as well as in the earlier articles, that was much too technical for me to follow; but yeah, the gist was understandable enough.)

I'd been aware of exercise as an important variable affecting longevity (not just indirect effect of exercise on longevity by making your general health better, but by directly affecting your telomere length); but these two also look promising.

As all this applies directly to our lives, personally I'm not about to start taking freezing cold baths any time soon, but the dietary restriction part sounds promising. Not that I'm jumping in to try it just yet! But absolutely, that's something I'm going to make a point of trying to read up a bit more on for now.

Exercising's a ubiquitous thing these days, and there's no reason why one shouldn't think seriously about incorporating the calorie deprivation thing also, properly planned and advised that is, into one's lifestyle. Living longer is an attractive goal!


eta:
Started a new thread, to specifically discuss the calorie restriction bit.
 
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