Sweden's liberal pandemic strategy questioned as Stockholm death toll mounts

[Childlike Empress]

Quoting the BBC on Belarus is like quoting Denial Ferguson on what will happen with "Corona".

We all noticed how you tried to dodge the fact that Denmark is now on par with Sweden, dann.

 

[banquetbear]

COVID response in Australia is like the Spice Girls.
Victoria ruined it for everyone.

...this is a simplistic way to look at things. Simplistic to the point of ridiculous. Its a global pandemic. I think Victoria made mistakes early after the outbreak. And the thing about making a mistake in the face of a global pandemic is that you just can't simply turn back the clock. Cases grow exponentially. If you let it get away from you you have to catch up to it first before you begin to scale it back. That's just how it works. And we see that happening in many places all over the world.

What Victoria managed to do was remarkable and to bring the rate back as they did is a testament to the hard work done by the people in the frontlines. You can't accidentally go from 700 cases a day to 2 cases per day. It was a result of strategy, persistence, and hard work of both the authorities and the people of Victoria.

This isn't a game. It isn't a competition. Victoria didn't ruin it for everyone. Its a global pandemic and people are dying. Victoria should be applauded for following the science and bringing the outbreak under control.

 

[dann]

We all noticed how you tried to dodge the fact that Denmark is now on par with Sweden, dann.

You are the one who didn't notice that Denmark passed Sweden in new cases a few weeks ago. I post the numbers every day, so I don't miss much and don't have to dodge anything or pretend that things are better than they are.

You also seem to have missed the point that the Swedish establishment went against the unions when they wanted their members be protected from the virus, banning the use of face masks and other PPE for the protection of workers because they didn't want them to spread fear at the airport.

I guess the sentiment of upper-class Swedes is more important than the health and lives of the working classes. Keeping up appearances is so much more in line with Swedish consensus culture than acknowledging the threat of a virus running rampant through the population. And what would foreigners think when they arrived at the airport and saw airport staff wearing face masks?! It would have ruined the image Sweden was (and still is) trying to make the rest of the world believe in.

 

[lionking]

Regarding the effectiveness of hard lockdowns, these figures are worth contemplating:

Late July
France 1377
UK 846
Victoria 723

Now
France 25086
UK 15650
Victoria 1

Pretty straightforward.

 

[Samson]

Regarding the effectiveness of hard lockdowns, these figures are worth contemplating:

Late July
France 1377
UK 846
Victoria 723

Now
France 25086
UK 15650
Victoria 1

Pretty straightforward.

I am surprised NSW has a different strategy.
Australia can eliminate now, has vast natural wealth to back any strategy. My guess is equivalence with NZ by christmas and a patient wait for a vaccine.

The UK can envy their penal colony from which they are barred.

 

[EHocking]

...this is a simplistic way to look at things. Simplistic to the point of ridiculous. Its a global pandemic. I think Victoria made mistakes early after the outbreak. And the thing about making a mistake in the face of a global pandemic is that you just can't simply turn back the clock. Cases grow exponentially. If you let it get away from you you have to catch up to it first before you begin to scale it back. That's just how it works. And we see that happening in many places all over the world.

What Victoria managed to do was remarkable and to bring the rate back as they did is a testament to the hard work done by the people in the frontlines. You can't accidentally go from 700 cases a day to 2 cases per day. It was a result of strategy, persistence, and hard work of both the authorities and the people of Victoria.

This isn't a game. It isn't a competition. Victoria didn't ruin it for everyone. Its a global pandemic and people are dying. Victoria should be applauded for following the science and bringing the outbreak under control.

It was a joke, Joyce.

 

[lionking]

It was a joke, Joyce.

Okay. It just didn’t read like a joke.

 

[EHocking]

Okay. It just didn’t read like a joke.

The Spice Girls part, which was all that was quoted, was a joke.

The rest of what occurred in Victoria was not.
My original post was to point out the absurdity of praising a gov response to an absolute disaster of their own making that killed hundreds.

 

[lionking]

The rest of what occurred in Victoria was not.
My original post was to point out the absurdity of praising a gov response to an absolute disaster of their own making that killed hundreds.

Nonsense.

What I’m praising is how this wave has been managed and controlled. It is not absurd to praise this. We are now coming out of lockdown.

 

[EHocking]

Nonsense.

What I’m praising is how this wave has been managed and controlled. It is not absurd to praise this. We are now coming out of lockdown.

It is as absurd as praising the arsonist who started the fire because he also helped put it out.

They did such a great job of "managing and controlling" COVID, that there is an inquiry into just how well they did.
So good that it cost the state's Health Minister her job as well as the Premier's chief Sir Humphrey, Department of Premier and Cabinet secretary Chris Eccles, his job as well.

ETA : and lets not forget the current mortality rate in Victoria. So well managed that it is 26 times the per capita deaths of all other states combined.
That management and control is worthy of anyone's praise.

 

[Childlike Empress]

You are the one who didn't notice that Denmark passed Sweden in new cases a few weeks ago. I post the numbers every day, so I don't miss much and don't have to dodge anything or pretend that things are better than they are.

Yes, apparently I failed to notice that over Clutch Cargo's amusing stunt. So what is the remaining point here? It doesn't seem like you've changed your mind on the "strategy", in fact you are very much still hating on "Tegnell" and the Swedish sense of community. Why?

 

[lionking]

It is as absurd as praising the arsonist who started the fire because he also helped put it out.

They did such a great job of "managing and controlling" COVID, that there is an inquiry into just how well they did.
So good that it cost the state's Health Minister her job as well as the Premier's chief Sir Humphrey, Department of Premier and Cabinet secretary Chris Eccles, his job as well.

ETA : and lets not forget the current mortality rate in Victoria. So well managed that it is 26 times the per capita deaths of all other states combined.
That management and control is worthy of anyone's praise.

Yes, I can see it’s far too hard for you to acknowledge how Victoria has brought down infections so remarkably well. Never mind. Thankfully you are in a very small group, mainly made up of followers of Sky News and sovereign citizens. Enjoy the company.

 

[Clutch Cargo]

WHO Coronavirus Disease (COVID-19)

Data last updated: 2020/10/17, 7:43pm CEST

Newly reported cases in the last 24 hours:

U.S. 63,044
Australia 9
Sweden 0
Denmark 418
New Zealand 3

The U.S. has increased in new cases by 4,000: Ouch.
Australia has decreased by 12: Bravo!
New Zealand dropped by one.
Sweden maintains its zero or “eliminated” status: No surprise.
Denmark decreased by only 22 yet is still double its figure from last week: Ouch!

So, once again, Denmark is the biggest loser. It’s actually a phenomenon that Denmark can implement so many restrictions yet still be no better off than Sweden - taking into account Sweden’s more realistic percentages. How can that be? Are the restrictions themselves the reason? Are Denmark’s measures actually causing the doubling of their new cases of Corona virus? I don’t believe that. There must be a more realistic reason on why Denmark has doubled its tally of Corona virus. I heard someone say that Danish authorities are ******* psychopaths who don’t take their professional obligations seriously. Hmm. There is enough such trash talk as is the hyperbolic statement that Sweden has outlawed the use of face masks. A bold-faced lie. It doesn’t matter where you live in the world it must be obvious by way of sheer logic and instinct that it is a lie. Rather than dwell on these childish diversions it would be more prudent to to discover the reason behind Denmark's utter failure AFTER it introduced restrictions. Maybe it isn’t true? Perhaps Denmark has simply been compelled to report its actual figures that previously were being held out of public view?

 

[dann]

Saturday:
Coronavirus - countries (Worldometers, Oct. 17, 2020)
Deaths per million (Total deaths) New cases Serious/Critical
Sweden: 585 (5,918) 793* 30 *according to SVT.se. No new Swedish numbers till Tuesday.
Denmark: 117 (679) 500 16
Finland: 63 (351) 160 6
Norway: 51 (278) 97 5
Iceland: 32 (11) 69 4
Iceland has 1,242 active cases, Faroe Islands 11, New Zealand 40.
The Faroe Islands have 69 in quarantine, 0 hospitalized.

If you look at the death toll, it becomes strikingly obvious that elimination is the most effective strategy. Of the five Nordic countries, Iceland has only 11 per-capita deaths.

In the countries following the Hammer & the Dance strategy, i.e. lockdown followed by TeTrIs and low-level restrictions whenever/wherever the spread is on the verge of getting out of hand, the death toll is horrendous in comparison to Iceland's: DK 679, FIN 351, N 278.

Only a comparison with the one country on this list that is now reluctantly giving up on the herd immunity strategy makes the Hammer & the Dance seem worthwhile: S: 5,918.

I don't include the death toll of New Zealand and the Faroe Islands on a daily basis because the numbers hardly ever change, which makes the number of active cases more relevant, but for the sake of the comparison of the three strategies, elimination, the Hammer & the Dance and herd immunity:
NZ: 25 (5) FO: 0 (0)

 

[dann]

It doesn't seem like you've changed your mind on the "strategy", in fact you are very much still hating on "Tegnell" and the Swedish sense of community. Why?

No, I haven't changed my mind. I am 'hating on' the herd-immunity strategy and its architect Tegnell, who is a real person and doesn't need the "", because the Swedish COVID-19 Response Is a Disaster. That it also never lived up to its own declared intentions is something that I pointed out to Gavin and Tippit several times, but even if it had managed to do so, it would have been a disaster. Not even its intentions were any good.

 

[dann]

And still nobody really knows much about the virus. It's all guess-work from one day to the next. "Experts" running around like chickens with their heads cut off and starting each sentence with, "Well, basically ......" even though their basis shifts from one end to the other - isolation or exposure? They don't know for sure but they pretend to have the situation well in hand.

Since this particular problem seems to be a mixture of nationalism and Dunning-Kruger, these articles are mainly for CC's benefit:

När samma ämnen diskuteras om och om igen kan det vara viktigt att påminnas om hur mycket vi lärt oss om covid-19. Men det finns viktiga frågor som fortfarande behöver svar.
Detta vet vi om covid-19 – och dessa frågor behöver vis svar på (DagensNyheter.se, Oct. 17, 2020)

When the same questions are discussed again and again, it may be important to remember how much we have learned about Covid-19. But there are questions that still need to be answered.
This is what we know about Covid-19 – and these are the questions that we still need answers to.

Ett sätt att möta en annalkande corona-vinter kan vara att lära sig mer om det mänskliga psyket. För även om vi aldrig har gjort det här förut så har forskarna nu haft en del tid att studera vad som fungerar även för själsliga virus.
Diagnosen för Sverige – en dos av förnekelse (SvenskaDagbladet.se, Oct. 17, 2020)

One way to face an approaching corona winter may be to learn more about the human psyche. Because even though we have never done this before, researchers have now had some time to study what works even for viruses of the soul.
The diagnosis for Sweden - a dose of denial

 

[dann]

101 minkfarme ramt af coronasmitte (BT.dk, Oct. 16, 2020 – 14:21) [/quote]
101 mink farms infected with coronavirus And another 32 are suspected.

Coronavirus could drive the last nail into the mink fur trade (CNN, Oct, 18, 2020)
About the contagion of mink farms in Denmark and the rest of the world.

 

[Childlike Empress]

No, I haven't changed my mind. I am 'hating on' the herd-immunity strategy and its architect Tegnell, who is a real person and doesn't need the "", because the Swedish COVID-19 Response Is a Disaster. That it also never lived up to its own declared intentions is something that I pointed out the Gavin and Tippit several times, but even if it had managed to do so, it would have been a disaster. Not even its intentions were any good.

You linking to your own ramblings doesn't make the Swedish situation a disaster. In fact it isn't a disaster. What is a disaster is your thread, dann. It is hateful and just wrong.

 

[lionking]

You linking to your own ramblings doesn't make the Swedish situation a disaster. In fact it isn't a disaster. What is a disaster is your thread, dann. It is hateful and just wrong accurate and science based.

FTFY.

 

[Roger Ramjets]

WHO Coronavirus Disease (COVID-19)

Data last updated: 2020/10/16, 4:11pm CES

Newly reported cases in the last 24 hours:

U.S. 59,106
Australia 21
Sweden 0Denmark 430
New Zealand 4
Interesting this! The U.S. has gone up by nearly 20,000 cases. Australia is fairly steady by yesterday’s tally. New Zealand has doubled – so much for “eliminating” the virus in that county.

Now you are just being silly.

Why are you doing this? You know very well that Sweden's cases aren't anywhere near zero, that going from 2 to 4 cases is nothing in a population of 5 million, and that those are not even in the community but imports in quarantine.

New Zealand kindly lets their citizens come home from Covid-ravaged Europe and go into managed isolation at no charge, get excellent medical care if they were infected, and then become a part of New Zealand's Covid free community. And you respond with an insulting pack of lies that any child could see through.

Why are you continuing to be so transparently disingenuous? Are you trying to channel Trump?