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Ed Justice Barrett

Jesse Bering on Slate said:
... it’s simply flat-out incorrect to refer to a person’s sexual orientation as a “preference.” More than that, it’s dangerous.

Having said that, sexual preference is unlike other terms in this particular social arena in that most people use it without any bad intentions. Naiveté is their only offense, and that’s far easier to fix than willful ignorance...


This is something which people pressing for the use of the phrase sexual orientation rather than sexual preference have said many times, and it's very important in examining the current controversy. As Bering points out, most people using the phrase are simply using a familiar phrase with no intent of saying that homosexuals have simply chosen to be homosexual and could choose to be heterosexual if they put their mind to it.

People who oppose gay rights deliberately avoid using the phrase sexual orientation and deliberately use the phrase sexual preference instead; but there are many people (I would guess many more people) who use the phrase sexual preference simply because that used to be a common phrase in talking about gays, just as Negroes and colored people used to be common ways of referring to Blacks.

So when someone uses the phrase sexual preference in referring to homosexuality, a key question that people who support the use of the phrase sexual orientation need to ask themselves is whether the speaker is doing so deliberately (as anti-gay activists do) or unwittingly (the way many people who use the phrase do). If it's being done deliberately, people who support gay rights may feel a need to speak out against what the speaker has said; if it's being done unwittingly, it may seem better simply to let the matter pass for the moment if it's not a convenient time to get into such a discussion (and perhaps try to explain the problem to the speaker at another time).

As those who've gone to Google to find examples of people opposed to Barrett's nomination who have used the phrase have found, there are plenty of examples to choose from -- including Joe Biden. I suspect it's especially common among older people (just as years after it was no longer considered polite to refer to Blacks as colored people or Negroes there were older people who'd used those terms for many years of their lives and might unthinkingly slip into using one of those terms again). Most of us don't take time to plan out carefully the exact wording of everything we're going to say when we're engaged in casual conversation, or take time to write out and examine the wording of things we'll say in answer to questions people may ask us before we start answering, and many of us realize that other people don't do that either.

In the case of Joe Biden, and many others who have been found to have used the phrase "sexual preference" on some occasion, I think the assumption (conscious or unconscious) of people familiar with the preference/orientation matter, is that he didn't mean it as a way of saying that being gay is a choice, so they felt no strong need to interrupt him at the time or to write a strong blog post denouncing him for it later.

It would be different, however, if the person using the phrase were an anti-gay activist making a public speech, a member of the anti-gay community, or a person who appeared to have significant connections to the anti-gay community. If a politician who appeared to be courting anti-gay voters were to use that phrase in campaign speeches, for example, it would be reasonable to suspect it was a way of communicating they believed that being gay was something people chose and that therefore gays should not be covered by anti-discrimination laws.

And that's why people are reacting quite differently to Barrett's use of the phrase than to Biden's. Barrett does have strong connections to the anti-gay community. She has met with people in that community over the years, seems sympathetic to many of their views, and appears to be appealing for their support in the current question of whether she should be confirmed as a supreme court justice. So it's reasonable for politicians who support gay rights, such as some of the Democratic senators at the judiciary committee hearing, to question her about her use of that particular wording and see what she meant by it. Was she truly unaware of the controversy over the use of that particular phrase (even though it has come up in many discussions about anti-discrimation laws)? Was she aware of the controversy about that phrase, but simply a little careless with her words, using a once-fashionable phrase without thinking it's now heard differently than in the past (the way Joe Biden likely was when he used the phrase). Or is that her preferred phrase for describing homosexuality and does it reflect an underlying belief that homosexuality is a choice people make?

That's something which is worth clearing up before the hearing is over. And the apology she made doesn't really do that. From NPR:

"I certainly didn't mean and would never mean to use a term that would cause any offense in the LGBTQ community," Barrett said. "If I did, I greatly apologize for that. I simply meant to be referring to Obergefell's holding with regard to same-sex marriage."


That's an example of the classic nopology: I'm sorry if you took offense at what I said. But the important question isn't whether she intended to offend gays with her wording; it's whether she believes that homosexuality is a choice people make, which is what that phrase means to a lot of people she has been closely associated with believe. And that's a question she continues to refuse to address in the hearings -- which makes it quite likely that is indeed what she believes and why she used that phrase.
 
Parents wanted to believe it was a choice because it gave them hope that their children could change and become 'normal'. To believe otherwise meant they either had to accept their homosexuality or condemn them/ exclude them from their lives according to their religious teachings.

Or, in the less charitable view, some people want to believe it's a choice because only then can it be a sin, and be punishable.
 
No doubt people are expressing the same concern about Joe Biden, who used the term "sexual preference" a few months ago.


The issue isn't the term itself. The issue is what it means to someone who will hold the power to invalidate same-sex marriages, and who has expressed reservations about the Obergefell decision and other decisions that protect LGBTQ rights. That person is not Biden.
 
I'm not clear on what makes sexual orientation different from any other preference.


My father was something of a salt addict. He put extra salt on almost everything he ate. (He even put salt on slices of bread before eating them.) So I grew up with a preference for salt on most things I ate. But later in life, with many people being told to cut down on salt consumption and salt-free foods becoming more common, I was able to eat and enjoy low-salt or no-salt foods on the occasions those were what was available and grew to quite enjoy them. My preference for salt was not genetic, so it was not difficult to develop a liking for unsalted foods.

My mother liked her coffee black, so when I was old enough to start drinking coffee with her I also drank my coffee black and that became my preference. But in later years I came to quite enjoy drinking sugared (and even, on occasions, heavily-sugared) coffee. My preference for black coffee was not genetic, so it was easy for me to change my coffee preferences.

I'm a cat person. We almost always had a cat in the family when I was growing up, so I grew up loving to be around cats. (Even though, in those years, I was allergic to the fur on some cats and being around them caused my eyeballs to do push-ups.) I didn't dislike dogs, but I had no particular liking for them either. But in later years I've occasionally taken care of dogs while their people were away or had other social interactions with dogs and I've grown quite fond of some. My preference for cats and indifference to dogs was not genetic, so again it was easy for me to change my preferences.

There are many preferences we all have which are not difficult for us to change if we want to.

In contrast, there are some things we can't change simply because we want to. I'm right-handed for instance. I can't become left-handed or ambidextrous simply by wanting to be. You may think my being right-handed is simply a matter of free will and something I could change if I wanted to badly enough, but it's not. It's genetic, so will-power alone isn't going to change it.

Sexual orientation is similar. Some people feel sexual attraction to people of the opposite sex but don't feel attraction to people of the same sex. Some people feel sexual attraction to people of the same sex but don't feel attraction to people of the opposite sex. Some people feel sexual attraction to people of the same sex and to people of the opposite sex. And that's not something any of those groups of people are able to change simply because they might want to.

That's why it's more accurate to label heterosexuality, homosexuality and bisexuality as sexual orientations than as sexual preferences. These are not simply preferences which people can change even if they want to badly enough, they are integral parts of who those people are.

And -- getting back to the thread topic -- some people, such as the senators questioning Barrett about her beliefs and about where she stands on certain issues -- think it's important that supreme court justices understand that. It's not clear yet whether Barrett does or doesn't, but her use of the phrase sexual preference during the hearing increases the likelihood (already pretty strong even before she publicly used that phrase) that she doesn't.
 
There are many preferences we all have which are not difficult for us to change if we want to.

But every preference, every thought you have, as far as we know, is simply physics and chemistry. And any effort to change it is also one of those chemical processes. There is no magical will that can be exerted on that.

Preferences/orientation are all just chemical processes kicked off long ago that is some combination of fixed and random variables
 
But not making definitive, final decisions on the spur of the moment without listening to the arguments on both sides. Judges are supposed to be impartial and judge each case on the merits, not their personal views.

Problem is, we're talking about three well known and constitutionally settled issues here (well ok not the water is wet bit, that's scientifically settled). There should be no need for any judge or applicant judge to say "I dunno, I'll have to research it". The correct answer should be almost instantaneous.

I mean, in terms of evolutionary biology...

No, in terms of patriarchical misogyny.
 
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This whole discussion about homosexuality being or not being choice is silly.

Since I do not see being gay as anything wrong, it does not, in fact, matter if this is "lifestyle choice" or something that person in question cannot influence.

Though I do recognize value of "this is not choice" argument against beliefs of homophobes.
 
Or, in the less charitable view, some people want to believe it's a choice because only then can it be a sin, and be punishable.

This. The whole "Is homosexuality a choice" hijack the gay rights movement went through was just a red herring because it's easier to hate people (or to justify hating people) for choices they make than it is to hate them for things they are just born with.

But there's nothing wrong with being gay either way, so the questions of it being a personal choice or not is, at most, just a minor psychological curiosity.
 
No doubt people are expressing the same concern about Joe Biden, who used the term "sexual preference" a few months ago.

That's different because reasons.

Webster recently stealth edited their definition of "preference" in order to claim that "sexual preference" is offensive. It didn't say that as recently as the end of September of this year. That's some Orwellian **** right there.
 
Seems like someone doesn't understand the role of the courts. The reality of climate change is an issue policymakers have to deal with, and the courts aren't supposed to make policy. It's almost never relevant to the courts, and in the few situations in which it might be, then it's still better for the court to not have voiced an opinion before hearing such a case.

The fact she thinks it is controversial brings into question her mental fitness for the job in the first place.
 

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