Are we allowed to call Trump's regime fascism now?

[Skeptic Ginger]

Forgive us if after 4+ years of a constant stream of "Trump can't do that because if he tries someone will stop us... oh wait looks like he's got a toadie/yes man into the 'someone who was supposed to stop him' position" being repeated every 2 seconds we're not finding it particularly reassuring.

Especially since the Electoral College just up and going "LOL we don't care what the people want we're electing this guy because we know better" wouldn't be illegal or unconstitutional or indeed even against the "spirit" of the EC.

I never said anything of the kind. Find a post where I said anything like that.

And yes, for 4 years no one has put their foot down to stop the corruption. If they tried they were removed and the rest (not so many now) just grabbed their share before abandoning ship.

But the Democrats took back the House in 2018 by VOTING. And there's every indication they are going to throw the corrupt lot of them out in a couple weeks plus we need to the deal with the lame duck where god knows what will happen. But one step at a time.

 

[Hlafordlaes]

... Especially since the Electoral College just up and going "LOL we don't care what the people want we're electing this guy because we know better" wouldn't be illegal or unconstitutional or indeed even against the "spirit" of the EC.

Now recognizable as the Constitution's dictatorship loophole. Fits right into Halloween season.

The long-term consequences of the GOP strategy of dominating state legislatures and fixing the vote, apart from the electoral college, are devastating.

Talk outside the US is that there is no way a nation of the kind we've been forced to witness can lead anyone anywhere, let alone itself.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

That **** belongs in the CT thread.

Did you even watch the video? Feel free to tell us exactly what you dislike about it.

 

[Trebuchet]

I wish I could share your optimism, Ginger.

 

[Beelzebuddy]

Biden is 6 points ahead in Penn and Wisconsin and 3 ahead in FL. Very few people are undecided and early voter turnout shows it will be a record year.

So what? Polls don't count unless they're ballots, ballots don't count until someone counts them. How many of those points are going to mail in their ballots only to have them delayed and conveniently forgotten, or challenged and discarded because of reasons? Remember they don't have to win, just get close enough for results that can be reasonably challenged, then run that up until a packed court rules in their favour. Once the SCOTUS rules for Trump in PA or FL, all of the lower courts are going to interpret that as precedent.

Nothing would make me happier than to have the polls hold, and turn the blue wave into an undeniable crushing mandate against everything Trumpers represent, leaving them slinking away with their tails between their legs back to Skull Island or their mothers' basements or wherever racist throwbacks go to stew about how unfair the world is to them just because they're total jerks. But we're not quite out of the woods just yet.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I put this in the 2020 election thread as well:

Politico: ‘This is ********** crazy’: Florida Latinos swamped by wild conspiracy theories - A flood of disinformation and deceptive claims is damaging Joe Biden in the nation’s biggest swing state.

MIAMI — George Soros directs a “deep state” global conspiracy network. A Joe Biden win would put America in control of “Jews and Blacks.” The Democratic nominee has a pedophilia problem.

Wild disinformation like this is inundating Spanish-speaking residents of South Florida ahead of Election Day, clogging their WhatsApp chats, Facebook feeds and even radio airwaves at a saturation level that threatens to shape the outcome in the nation’s biggest and most closely contested swing state.

The sheer volume of conspiracy theories — including QAnon — and deceptive claims are already playing a role in stunting Biden’s growth with Latino voters, who make up about 17 percent of the state’s electorate.

“The onslaught has had an effect,” said Eduardo Gamarra, a pollster and director of the Latino Public Opinion Forum at Florida International University.

The Cambridge Analytica folks would be proud. They might even be running the planning in whatever their new company version is.

Now this is the threat we should be paying attention to. Not all that BS about Trump refusing to leave and how all the GOP governors are going to call their states for Trump claiming they need to because of voter fraud. The latter is a consciously inserted distraction, to which Trump is likely playing a bit part.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Did you even watch the video? Feel free to tell us exactly what you dislike about it.

**** no, it's more than an hour long. It's a propaganda video making the rounds just like the Loose Change video did.

 

[varwoche]

I typically do not argue by posting links, but I recommend this documentary.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xn7MXFGl9Hs

You can add quite a few shenanigans to this list, of course.

Ah yes, old school voter suppression. Back in the good old days when Republicans didn't try to steal elections in plain view led by a stark raving mad President who is using the levers of government to take part, urging drooling, armed whackadoodles to assist, abetted by a corrupt AG the likes of which we've never seen in modern times, and by a (soon to be) newly comprised SCOTUS populated by religious zealots.

We're in uncharted, shark-infested water roiled by a putrid hurricane. Anyone who is confident one way or the other isn't paying sufficient attention to the weather report.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Florida, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan, Iowa, Arizona, and Ohio all have Republican state level legislatures. Many of them also have Republican governers.

The state level legislature is who decides who the Electoral Voters are. The Supreme Court just re-inforced the ruling that states retain control of how they elect and police their electors.

Trump straight up telling all, most, or even some of those states "Just get me electors who are going to keep me in office" is not crazy and as I already pointed out wouldn't even be illegal or unconstitutional.

And as noted he doesn't have to win. Just lose with enough margin as to declare the election "contested" or "rigged."

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Ah yes, old school voter suppression. Back in the good old days when Republicans didn't try to steal elections in plain view led by a stark raving mad President who is using the levers of government to take part, urging drooling, armed whackadoodles to assist, abetted by a corrupt AG the likes of which we've never seen in modern times, and by a (soon to be) newly comprised SCOTUS populated by religious zealots.

We're in uncharted, shark-infested water roiled by a putrid hurricane. Anyone who is confident one way or the other isn't paying sufficient attention to the weather report.

That may be, but it's very much out in the open and doesn't worry me like the propaganda threat does because few people are paying attention to the propaganda that is flowing in a repeat of 2016. It's in another disguise right under people's noses.
The Trump camp knows Hispanics are a ripe target market.

NYT Opinion (free access during the COVID pandemic): Democrats, You Can’t Count On the Hispanic Vote

In Florida, an NBC News/Marist poll shows Mr. Trump leading Joe Biden among Hispanic voters, 50 percent to 46 percent, which could put the state in a virtual tie. In Texas, nearly 38 percent of Hispanics say they support Mr. Trump, while in Arizona, 29 percent do, according to recent polls. As with other demographic groups, Hispanic men are more likely than women to support Mr. Trump, with nearly 46 percent of Hispanic men in Texas and 42 percent of young Hispanic men in Arizona supporting him.

We tend to think of Hispanics as a nonwhite minority group, but many don’t necessarily think of themselves in such terms. What’s more, growing numbers of Hispanics are Protestant or evangelical Christians, a group that, like their non-Hispanic coreligionists, is far more inclined toward Mr. Trump. In Texas, for example, Hispanic Protestants support him over Joe Biden by almost two to one, according to the Texas Hispanic Policy Foundation.

This is an older article that came out during the impeachment exercise:
The Atlantic: The Billion-Dollar Disinformation Campaign to Reelect the President - How new technologies and techniques pioneered by dictators will shape the 2020 election

... The story that unfurled in my Facebook feed over the next several weeks was, at times, disorienting. There were days when I would watch, live on TV, an impeachment hearing filled with damning testimony about the president’s conduct, only to look at my phone later and find a slickly edited video—served up by the Trump campaign—that used out-of-context clips to recast the same testimony as an exoneration. Wait, I caught myself wondering more than once, is that what happened today?

As I swiped at my phone, a stream of pro-Trump propaganda filled the screen: “That’s right, the whistleblower’s own lawyer said, ‘The coup has started …’ ” Swipe. “Democrats are doing Putin’s bidding …” Swipe. “The only message these radical socialists and extremists will understand is a crushing …” Swipe. “Only one man can stop this chaos …” Swipe, swipe, swipe.

I was surprised by the effect it had on me. I’d assumed that my skepticism and media literacy would inoculate me against such distortions. But I soon found myself reflexively questioning every headline. It wasn’t that I believed Trump and his boosters were telling the truth. It was that, in this state of heightened suspicion, truth itself—about Ukraine, impeachment, or anything else—felt more and more difficult to locate. With each swipe, the notion of observable reality drifted further out of reach.

... After the 2016 election, much was made of the threats posed to American democracy by foreign disinformation. ....

Every presidential campaign sees its share of spin and misdirection, but this year’s contest promises to be different. In conversations with political strategists and other experts, a dystopian picture of the general election comes into view—one shaped by coordinated bot attacks, Potemkin local-news sites, micro-targeted fearmongering, and anonymous mass texting. Both parties will have these tools at their disposal. But in the hands of a president who lies constantly, who traffics in conspiracy theories, and who readily manipulates the levers of government for his own gain, their potential to wreak havoc is enormous.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Florida, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan, Iowa, Arizona, and Ohio all have Republican state level legislatures. Many of them also have Republican governers.

The state level legislature is who decides who the Electoral Voters are. The Supreme Court just re-inforced the ruling that states retain control of how they elect and police their electors.

Trump straight up telling all, most, or even some of those states "Just get me electors who are going to keep me in office" is not crazy and as I already pointed out wouldn't even be illegal or unconstitutional.

And as noted he doesn't have to win. Just lose with enough margin as to declare the election "contested" or "rigged."

So you think 7 states have totally corrupted governments and a population that won't scream bloody murder if their state government tries to override the election results?

 

[JoeMorgue]

So you think 7 states have totally corrupted governments and a population that won't scream bloody murder if their state government tries to override the election results?

I think enough of both the governments and population of enough of those 7 states to tip an election could possibly buy into "The Democrats have rigged the election with their illegal brown people voting and ballot shenanigans, we're just fighting fire with fire" to make me nervous about what happens if some shady crap gets pulled. If you dismiss this with a curt "LOL dramatic" you haven't been paying attention to the last 4 years.

And again, for the third time. Overriding the election results IS WHAT THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE IS SUPPOSED TO DO. It's why we have it. There would be no legal or Constitutional recourse because no rules would have been broken. The only power to bear would be the "Will of the People" and 40% of them want Trump in office.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I think enough of both the governments and population of enough of those 7 states to tip an election could possibly buy into "The Democrats have rigged the election with their illegal brown people voting and ballot shenanigans, we're just fighting fire with fire" to make me nervous about what happens if some shady crap gets pulled. If you dismiss this with a curt "LOL dramatic" you haven't been paying attention to the last 4 years.

And again, for the third time. Overriding the election results IS WHAT THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE IS SUPPOSED TO DO. It's why we have it. There would be no legal or Constitutional recourse because no rules would have been broken. The only power to bear would be the "Will of the People" and 40% of them want Trump in office.

Do you know how many Republicans have publicly announced they are not supporting or voting for Trump?

What is your solution to this travesty that appears inevitable?

 

[JoeMorgue]

What is your solution to this travesty that appears inevitable?

What's yours beyond "No that can't happen because I don't want it to..."

 

[Trebuchet]

So you think 7 states have totally corrupted governments and a population that won't scream bloody murder if their state government tries to override the election results?

They have a totally corrupted Republican Party, and by 2022 complaining about it will be sufficient to get you arrested for treason.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

What's yours beyond "No that can't happen because I don't want it to..."

Mine is to address the ongoing propaganda campaign, get more Hispanics to see they are being played, use the techniques we previously talked about when we were more active in the JREF.

Educating people to the current social media propaganda seems a tad more promising than fear mongering about Trump already having the corrupt state governments in the bag.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

They have a totally corrupted Republican Party, and by 2022 complaining about it will be sufficient to get you arrested for treason.

You should have put that in spoilers. I haven't read that book yet.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Mine is to address the ongoing propaganda campaign, get more Hispanics to see they are being played, use the techniques we previously talked about when we were more active in the JREF.

Educating people to the current social media propaganda seems a tad more promising than fear mongering about Trump already having the corrupt state governments in the bag.

Okay this is twice in this thread where I've hit some weird nerve with you by suggesting the EC is a potential weak spot in the election process.

I will, again, leave you be. Other people agree that it's a potential valid worry, so I can talk to them.

If I bring it up again you can just not respond if you think it's not worrying about.

 

[Trebuchet]

Its not so much the EC as the corruption of the R Party and the courts.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Okay this is twice in this thread where I've hit some weird nerve with you by suggesting the EC is a potential weak spot in the election process....

Straw man at best, nonsense at worst.

You think I don't ******* know that about the EC?

You can bitch and moan all you want about the election process.


I'll just be over here in the corner addressing the massive campaign propaganda effort the Trump camp has going on social media. You are not required to attend.