General UK politics

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Allegations and accusations are doing quite a bit of heavy lifting there.

Still, that whole affair lead to one of the funniest bits on HIGNFY, with Trevor McDonald as host (https://www.dailymotion.com/video/xrl9rx the Oaten bit is from 12 minutes onwards, but the whole section leading up to it just gold).

Will check that out. (ETA - 10.15 on Oaten.)

There were rumours around Westminster before the story broke that Oaten enjoyed a Cleveland Steamer, but I don’t recall anyone ever knowing the source of that - I was amazed the detail appeared in the story.

He certainly didn’t deserve to lose his frontbench role for the LDs over it, and being on the right of the LDs he might have had a role in the Coalition government, had he not withdrawn from politics as a result.
 
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Will check that out. (ETA - 10.15 on Oaten.)

There were rumours around Westminster before the story broke that Oaten enjoyed a Cleveland Steamer, ...

A Cleveland Steamer? I thought it was called a Texas Steamer!

*suddenly panics and looks around nervously*

I ... just... heard that it was called that, whatever that is....:duck:
 
A major problem in UK politics is that a party can regularly come up with policies that the majority of the electorate agree with and still not have people vote for them because they are perceived as having no chance of winning.

A vote for what you actually want is “a wasted vote”, AKA first past the post.

I inherited support for the Liberal party (now LibDems), from my parents (I only recently learnt that was a compromise on their part, as one was originally Labour and one Conservative), but any time I do one of those political alignment tests or review of policies, the LibDems are the party which very closely aligns to my views. The attitude you mention is constantly frustrating.
 
I've mostly voted LibDem, because for most of my adult life they were the only actually left-wing party. Last election was a definite Labour vote, though, because it seemed very, very important to do whatever was the most likely to not allow the Tories to get in. Not that it made any difference, in this very safe Tory seat, but every little helps as the old woman said when she pissed in the sea.

But it is worth pointing out that there's another reason why many don't vote for the LibDems in recent years - their time in power. More specifically university fees.

Part of that whole thing is the Tories somehow magically managing to make the LibDems' tempering of their worst excesses be, in the public eye, the LibDems being responsible for all the Tories worst excesses. But they had campaigned extensively on tuition fees, so to turn around on it in such a huge way was seen by many as a massive betrayal. I imagine that there's a whole generation of people who were young at the time who then and there decided that they would never vote for the LibDems as long as they lived.

On the plus side, the current generation of young people have lived through the A-levels debacle, and were either forced back in to schools with no help from the government or are now being told that they'll likely have to stay at university over Christmas because it's unsafe for them to go home. So I imagine that's a generation of people who will never vote Tory as long as they shall live.
 
I've mostly voted LibDem, because for most of my adult life they were the only actually left-wing party. Last election was a definite Labour vote, though, because it seemed very, very important to do whatever was the most likely to not allow the Tories to get in. Not that it made any difference, in this very safe Tory seat, but every little helps as the old woman said when she pissed in the sea.

But it is worth pointing out that there's another reason why many don't vote for the LibDems in recent years - their time in power. More specifically university fees.

Part of that whole thing is the Tories somehow magically managing to make the LibDems' tempering of their worst excesses be, in the public eye, the LibDems being responsible for all the Tories worst excesses. But they had campaigned extensively on tuition fees, so to turn around on it in such a huge way was seen by many as a massive betrayal. I imagine that there's a whole generation of people who were young at the time who then and there decided that they would never vote for the LibDems as long as they lived.

On the plus side, the current generation of young people have lived through the A-levels debacle, and were either forced back in to schools with no help from the government or are now being told that they'll likely have to stay at university over Christmas because it's unsafe for them to go home. So I imagine that's a generation of people who will never vote Tory as long as they shall live.

Bear in mind that the Lib Dem could have formed a coalition with Labour instead of the Tories and quite frankly everything the Tories did is on them.
 
Bear in mind that the Lib Dem could have formed a coalition with Labour instead of the Tories and quite frankly everything the Tories did is on them.

This, sort of. I don't agree with blaming people as much for not preventing something as the people who actually did it, and I think that the Dems were a mitigating force to the Torys* (but that probably contributed to Cameron's disastrous victory.. So guess I'm back on side with you). But the idea the Lib Dems are left wing is kind of strange. A Labour/Lib Dem coalition might have been a great government.

* I actually had a conversation with Nick Clegg's father where I said this and predicted they'd get no credit for it, but all the blame for everything the Torys had done.
 
UK govt. set to invade the media

Charles Moore (ex Daily Telegraph editor) touted as their favourite to head the BBC.

Paul Dacre (ex Daily Mail editor), touted as their favourite to head OFCOM, the media watchdog.

link

And, in case you wandered in here not too familiar with the UK media, The Torygraph and The Daily Fail are about as right wing as Brit papers get.

Oh **** :mad:
 
The Telegraph isn't known as "The Torygraph" for nothing, still looks like all those years of paying Johnson £1/4mil a year for 200 words a week have paid off for Moore. And the Daily Mail has such a fine reputation for impartiality, truth and accuracy I'm surprised they get their cover price right so an ideal choice for the media watchdog...
 
Bear in mind that the Lib Dem could have formed a coalition with Labour instead of the Tories and quite frankly everything the Tories did is on them.

Which would have involved another party, as a Lib/Lab coalition would still have fallen just under 10 seats short.

In the end, however, I suspect it came more down to Clegg not really liking Brown, and the idea of (arguably) propping up a government that had just taken a bit of a battering at the polls.
 
Bear in mind that the Lib Dem could have formed a coalition with Labour instead of the Tories and quite frankly everything the Tories did is on them.

They could have, but only if they abandoned their stance of proportional representation. It wouldn't be very consistent to have the main focus of your platform be that the number of votes each party gets is very important, and then form a coalition with the party with fewer votes just because they are more closely aligned with you ideologically, would it?
 
They could have, but only if they abandoned their stance of proportional representation. It wouldn't be very consistent to have the main focus of your platform be that the number of votes each party gets is very important, and then form a coalition with the party with fewer votes just because they are more closely aligned with you ideologically, would it?

It wouldn't be very consistent to claim to be a centre-left party that gives a **** about people and then get into bed with the Tories. Forming a government with Labour would in no way have meant abandoning their stance on PR, which is and was never going to happen anyway, but forming a government with the Tories meant abandoning their pretence on everything else.

And they fitted in rather well with their friends in the Tories in that coalition. As they do in Scotland where they parrot the same old Unionist tropes shoulder to shoulder with their Tory mates.

ETA: It would be a strange claim to suggest that PR means that you have to support the policies of the party that gets the most votes anyway. That's not how PR works. Stranger still to claim that the principles of PR have any relevance to a FPTP election.
 
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Which would have involved another party, as a Lib/Lab coalition would still have fallen just under 10 seats short.

In the end, however, I suspect it came more down to Clegg not really liking Brown, and the idea of (arguably) propping up a government that had just taken a bit of a battering at the polls.

To have a majority, yes. Not to form a government they wouldn't have, though. They would have had the support of the SNP, Plaid, Green etc anyway so they would have got their 10 if they needed them.
 
For most of my adult life they've been left of Labour.

That's a truly bizarre statement. Why for example do you think that Lib Dem are the 2nd party in areas where I live with huge Tory majorities? Because they are to the left of Labour?

I've always seen LD as being the non-gammon wing of the Tory Party. They've always had a few progressive policies and generally been pro-Europe and pro-immigration but to say they are left-wing is odd. Although it also reflects how much of a basket case of ideology Labour has been where you can certainly find policies where the LD have been to the left of them.
 
It wouldn't be very consistent to claim to be a centre-left party that gives a **** about people and then get into bed with the Tories.

Politics is all about creating compromises with people you don't agree with.

Forming a government with Labour would in no way have meant abandoning their stance on PR[...]

It would absolutely have gone against the stance that the power a party has should be proportional to the number of votes a party gets to have ignored the fact that the Tories got the most votes and for the major party with the fewest votes to unilaterally decide the winner of the election.
 
That's a truly bizarre statement. Why for example do you think that Lib Dem are the 2nd party in areas where I live with huge Tory majorities? Because they are to the left of Labour?

I've always seen LD as being the non-gammon wing of the Tory Party. They've always had a few progressive policies and generally been pro-Europe and pro-immigration but to say they are left-wing is odd. Although it also reflects how much of a basket case of ideology Labour has been where you can certainly find policies where the LD have been to the left of them.

I think a case can be made that the LibDems were to the left of Labour during the Blair/Brown new-Labour years.

However, IMO that's comparing apples with oranges to a certain degree. New Labour had to deal with the realpolitik whereas the LibDems could promote policies which likely had little or no chance of becoming law.

IMO the coalition government of 2010 shows what happens when LibDem policy runs slap-bang into the reality of British politics :(
 
That's a truly bizarre statement. Why for example do you think that Lib Dem are the 2nd party in areas where I live with huge Tory majorities? Because they are to the left of Labour?

I've always seen LD as being the non-gammon wing of the Tory Party. They've always had a few progressive policies and generally been pro-Europe and pro-immigration but to say they are left-wing is odd. Although it also reflects how much of a basket case of ideology Labour has been where you can certainly find policies where the LD have been to the left of them.

Well, put it this way, ISideWith.com aligns people's political views with UK political parties, by analysing voting records, policy, issues discussed in speeches, how frequently they're discussed, etc. and you can see the analysis for yourself.
 
The Telegraph isn't known as "The Torygraph" for nothing, still looks like all those years of paying Johnson £1/4mil a year for 200 words a week have paid off for Moore. And the Daily Mail has such a fine reputation for impartiality, truth and accuracy I'm surprised they get their cover price right so an ideal choice for the media watchdog...
The Daily Mail has actually got "better" since PD left. Granted that wouldn't have been difficult considering where it was.
 
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