Sweden's liberal pandemic strategy questioned as Stockholm death toll mounts

[dann]

I had to give this statement of yours some thought. After a very quick read of it I didn't fully agree with you but now that it's sunk in I realize that you are perfectly right.

You have entertained us with your ramblings about the impossibility of knowing anything about a pandemic where we actually have a lot of information. Now you are telling us that, after careful consideration, you have decided that Tippit is not only right, but "perfectly right," about something that neither one of you has any information about.

 

[dann]

Sunday:
Coronavirus - countries (Worldometers, Sep. 20, 2020)
Deaths per million (Total deaths) New cases Serious/Critical
Sweden: 580 (5,865) 352* 15 *according to SVT.se No new numbers till Tuesday.
Denmark: 110 (638) 469 9* The number of people in ICUs has more than doubled since yesterday + three deaths!
Finland: 61 (339) 58 3
Norway: 49 (267) 25 2
Iceland: 29 (10) 39 0
Iceland has 215 active cases, Faroe Islands 22, New Zealand 71.
The Faroe Islands have 59 in quarantine, 0 hospitalized, and all tests from yesterday analyzed.

The daily number of positive Covid tests over the past week has been as follows: 5, 0, 5, 0, 1, 1, 1 and 3.
http://kvf.fo/greinar/2020/09/20/three-new-covid-cases (KVF.fo, Sep. 20, 2020)

 

[Myriad]

Today in Minsk.

Meanwhile, back in Germany, the number of "false positives" last week broke 2,000 per day on the weekdays. Very sloppy testing! Sad.

 

[Childlike Empress]

You present us with a description of the virus that is wildly exaggerated and out of proportion with what we know about it, [bla cut]

I'm presenting you with facts that show that what we have to suffer because of it is wildly out of proportion with the "threat" of that virus. And yet you are begging for more while hating on your "collectivist" neighbour. Why not move to Australia? They'll keep you safe.

Myriad, they've extended the "testing" to over a million a week now for a month or so, so even if your numbers were true (I'll check on next occasion), false positives will be a huge part of positives given the specifications of the test, even if they are the better of those available (which for some reason is information not easily available).

 

[RedStapler]

I'm presenting you with facts that show that what we have to suffer because of it is wildly out of proportion with the "threat" of that virus. And yet you are begging for more while hating on your "collectivist" neighbour. Why not move to Australia? They'll keep you safe.

Myriad, they've extended the "testing" to over a million a week now for a month or so, so even if your numbers were true (I'll check on next occasion), false positives will be a huge part of positives given the specifications of the test, even if they are the better of those available (which for some reason is information not easily available).

Just for clarity: "We" is a ridiculously small portion of the german population. The last 2 demos in Germany were basically a gathering of all the bottom feeding german covidiots.

And of course "suffer" means: We are contrarian buffoons who start to cry because we have to wear a mask in a pandemic.

 

[Childlike Empress]

Here's a dashboard showing the situation of ICU beds in Germany. ~30% are empty. The rest amount to 21201. Of those, used by "COVID-19" patients are 269.

I wonder where all those "cases" are. Oh, I know. In quarantine while they don't even have a cough.

 

[RedStapler]

Here's a dashboard showing the situation of ICU beds in Germany. ~30% are empty. The rest amount to 21201. Of those, used by "COVID-19" patients are 269.

I wonder where all those "cases" are. Oh, I know. In quarantine while they don't even have a cough.

Well we shut a lot of the country down and now there are not many cases. Seems like a problem for you. What's so hard to understand that they were just preparing for the situation where the majority of the people chose to be be braindead covidiots.

 

[steenkh]

In this case, your freedom from being infected is a function of your innumeracy, paranoia, and general inability to asses risks. You should be far more concerned with the likelihood that you will die of cancer and heart disease, than the poor unmasked soul next to you.

Why do you think I am not concerned with cancer or heart disease? I minimize those risks as far as possible, but you believe you have a right to be able to infect me with COVID-19 because your freedom is worth more to you than my risk.

You seem to think that if there is a another risk around that one cannot do much about, then one should not concern oneself with a risk that can be minimized. I have heard same argument from smokers who claim that there is no reason to quit smoking because there are so many other sources of air pollution. And you accuse me of innumeracy!

Would you also advocate the right to drive while drunk? That too is a case where people take risks on behalf of other people.

Wake me up when the Chinese release MERS into the wild, and we have something worthy of a “lockdown”.

Oh, I see. You are a conspiracy nutter too. Well, that explains some of your attitudes.

 

[dann]

Just for clarity: "We" is a ridiculously small portion of the german population. The last 2 demos in Germany were basically a gathering of all the bottom feeding german covidiots.

I think she is still offended because her promised "millions" never showed up. It's fairly obvious that the neoliberals' preferred tactic now is to point to the covidiots in other countries and claim that they prove the herd immunity strategy right.

In Sweden right now, whenever another country is loosening its restrictions somewhat after having hammered the virus down, politicians and journalists celebrate it as proof that the Swedish herd immunity strategy was right. They just can't (= won't) get it into their thick skulls that The Hammer & the Dance is very different from the neoliberal attitude of letting the virus rage and kill off the undeserving weak and elderly.

It's a classic example of projection. Swedes have been in denial about what was actually taking place when they chose to do noting but a little social distancing for those who felt like it, so now they think that everybody else has adopted the Swedish herd-immunity strategy while being in denial about it:

”Alla gör som Sverige – ingen vill erkänna det” (Expressen.se, Sep. 6, 2020)
”Everybody is doing like Sweden – nobody will admit it”

 

[RedStapler]

Yeah, it's the good ol double down strategy. I know a covidiot personally and he simply keeps repeating the stuff including the "But hospitals are empty, hurr durr." and my 'favorite' : (When asked how such a big conspiracy with so many people in the know could even work) :"You knew that doctors get paid 600€ if they put Covid on a death certificate?"

 

[dann]

I wonder where all those "cases" are. Oh, I know. In quarantine while they don't even have a cough.

No, far from all of them are in quarantine. 9,470 are dead - very few in comparison to the 5,865 deaths in Sweden, a country eight times smaller than Germany, population-wise. And only a minority of hospitalized Covid-19 patients are in ICUs.
The rest of the still active cases, 20,053 according to Worldometers, are in quarantine or self-isolating because they are infectious. They can transmit the virus without coughing, but I guess that this particular piece of news hasn't yet reached the conspiracy community.

 

[dann]

More German cases. Local initiatives to slow down the rising number of new cases:
München verschärft Corona-Maßnahmen (SüddeutscheZeitung.de, Sep. 21, 2020)
Munich tightens corona measures

Wegen hoher Coronazahlen: München verschärft Maßnahmen (Antenne.de, Sep. 21, 2020)
Because of high corona numbers: Munich tightens measures

 

[dann]

CNN has learned that the Swedish government won't be recommending a future coronavirus vaccine to anyone under the age of 18 as the government stands by its belief that children only transfer the virus in a "limited" way. CNN's Max Fostervisits Sweden to examine the country's strategy.
Why some Swedes express skepticism over Covid-19 vaccine (CNN, Sep. 21, 2020)

Tegnells stickspår om influensan leder inte Sverige vidare. Sveriges många döda i covid-19 är fortfarande fakta. Anders Tegnells nya förklaring ser mer ut som fiktion. (DagensNyheter.se, Sep. 21, 2020)
Tegnell’s deadend about the flu doesn’t get Sweden anywhere. Sweden’s many deaths are still a fact. Anders Tegnell’s new explanation looks more like fiction.

 

[dann]

Monday:
Coronavirus - countries (Worldometers, Sep. 21, 2020)
Deaths per million (Total deaths) New cases Serious/Critical
Sweden: 580 (5,865) 352* 15 *according to SVT.se No new numbers till Tuesday.
Denmark: 110 (640) 418 12 The number of hospitalizations tripled in two weeks.
Finland: 61 (339) 66 3
Norway: 49 (267) 57 2
Iceland: 29 (10) 31 0
Iceland has 242 active cases, Faroe Islands 24, New Zealand 62.
The Faroe Islands have 94 in quarantine, 0 hospitalized, and all tests from yesterday analyzed.
Fears over extensive covid spread in Torshavn (KVF.fo, Sep. 21, 2020)
Another three new Covid cases (KVF.fo, Sep. 21, 2020)

 

[Rolfe]

As Pueyo observed in a recent article, a lot of countries applied the hammer but then didn't get the hang of dancing. I noticed it here. Cases rose, and instead of re-introducing some restrictions, or at least pausing the reopening to see if the contact tracers could get the curve to come back down again, they went on opening up even in the face of increasing numbers of infections. Now they're having to re-apply the hammer.

 

[dann]

The Danish PM seems to have grasped it - even though the new restrictions came a little late, again. She referred explicitly to The Hammer & the Dance recently. Apparently, she hadn't heard about the strategy when the hammer was applied here in March.

Pueyo is pretty amazing, especially considering that he is not a health-care professional or an epidemiologist. And he even has time for this: The Star Wars Rings: The Hidden Structure Behind the Star Wars Story

 

[Tippit]

Browsing the Covid Worldometer and sorting by dpm, I notice that Sweden is a whopping 13th! They are undoubtedly preceded by a number of countries that have suffered extensive lockdowns. In addition, I note that you refrain from posting the Netherlands, which as of the date of this post stands at 367 dpm, and suffers from an extensive lockdown/containment strategy!

Given that Sweden’s strategy would result in front-loading a lot of deaths, but has presumably resulted in a much higher quality-of-life, it seems likely that your premise that their strategy has failed is complete ********.

Can you explain why twelve other countries on that list, likely all with oppressive containment strategies have fared worse than Sweden, and in particular the Netherlands, who, despite their containment strat and miserable quality of life sit at only about 200 dpm less than Sweden?

Using these metrics is asinine. They dont account for a huge number of factors that affect different countries, including population densities, cultures, religious practices, and last but not least, climates, the colder of which not only influence viral longevity, but host immune systems.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[lionking]

Wow, Sweden has only 12 countries with a higher death rate. Way to go.

You can do much better than that. Aim higher guys. You are not that far below the UK and the US. Go for gold Sweden.

Oh, and have a look at hellholes like Australia which has 5% of Sweden’s death rate. Shame on you idiots.

 

[Tippit]

Wow, Sweden has only 12 countries with a higher death rate. Way to go.

You can do much better than that. Aim higher guys. You are not that far below the UK and the US. Go for gold Sweden.

Oh, and have a look at hellholes like Australia which has 5% of Sweden’s death rate. Shame on you idiots.

You’re painfully oblivious to the point, which is that if Sweden undertook a lassiez-faire strategy that failed, they should probably be closer to number one, and that given the choice, anyone rational and with a brain would rather be in Sweden, than locked down in the Netherlands.

Nice try, though!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Rolfe]

Timing of lockdown is everything. A lockdown that is too late, and moreover was preceded by a period when the government actively tried to encourage the virus to spread across the country, doesn't lead to a low death toll.