Riots, looting, vandalism, etc.

SuburbanTurkey said:
I'm surprised neolib types haven't kicked the can of responsibility by requiring police get malpractice insurance from the free market.

There are huge numbers of cops that would be unemployable because no one would be willing to insure them given their record of brutality, and it wouldn't require a single DA having the courage to press charges. Insurance companies might make "Don't violate civil rights" training mandatory as a condition of carrying a policy.

Come on technocrats, do your thing!
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Huh. That's... not a bad idea. Not a complete fix, but would probably have some efficacy.
 
CaptainHowdy said:
There's a person standing on my car without my permission who does not immediately jump off my car is a valid reason for me to remove that person by whatever means necessary--including accelerating in reverse quickly so they lose their footing and fall off and then accelerating quickly in the opposite direction in order to injure them seriously enough so they are unable to jump back on my car.
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I doubt that would fly as self defense.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
Other solution: take the money for settling with victims of police violence out of the cops' pension fund.
Cops would kick out loose cannons as soon as they see themz.
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Either that or right out of the police department's budget.

Louisville Will Pay $12 Million to Settle Lawsuit by Breonna Taylor's Family

This would effectively be a way to "defund the police" but only if you really mean it. Provides an economic incentive for the police to not violate people's rights because the costs of that will come out of their own budget.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
I'm surprised neolib types haven't kicked the can of responsibility by requiring police get malpractice insurance from the free market.


There are huge numbers of cops that would be unemployable because no one would be willing to insure them given their record of brutality, and it wouldn't require a single DA having the courage to press charges. Insurance companies might make "Don't violate civil rights" training mandatory as a condition of carrying a policy.

Come on technocrats, do your thing!
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Oh, it has been brought up here or there.

Really, it already works this way. There is plenty of money out there willing to defend police misconduct. Unions, local governments, and so on.

It isn't like the officer is the one peeling off the cash to pay lawyers in a QI case that goes to the supreme court. Someone is paying for this.

Making it insurance would provide a profit center for insurance companies and little else, which, yeah, hard to see why this isn't a centrist Democratic position.
 
Suddenly said:
Oh, it has been brought up here or there.

Really, it already works this way. There is plenty of money out there willing to defend police misconduct. Unions, local governments, and so on.

It isn't like the officer is the one peeling off the cash to pay lawyers in a QI case that goes to the supreme court. Someone is paying for this.

Making it insurance would provide a profit center for insurance companies and little else, which, yeah, hard to see why this isn't a centrist Democratic position.
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Sure, but the big difference is that the police union wouldn't be able to wield political power to coerce the insurance companies to cover high liability cops. A private insurance company will not keep on expensive liabilities the way a city government might.

There are plenty of examples of cops on the force that everyone knows are huge liabilities because of past records of misconduct and lawsuit payouts. The city won't dump them because they are beholden to the police unions.
 
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SuburbanTurkey said:
Sure, but the big difference is that the police union wouldn't be able to wield political power to coerce the insurance companies to cover high liability cops. A private insurance company will not keep on expensive liabilities the way a city government might.

There are plenty of examples of cops on the force that everyone knows are huge liabilities because of past records of misconduct and lawsuit payouts. The city won't dump them because they are beholden to the police unions.
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The insurance companies won't refuse to insure individual cops for the exact same reason. The Union will negotiate the contracts and this all gets priced in and will eventually through some mechanism come out of our pockets anyway as part of police compensation. At best this transfers some costs to private donors.

Plus, now you have the for profit insurers enthusiastically joining the police in lobbying for ways to make it harder to redress harm. Want to see QI expanded and non-federal remedies further hollowed out? Have the insurance industry have a ton of skin in the game.
 
Suddenly said:
The insurance companies won't refuse to insure individual cops for the exact same reason. The Union will negotiate the contracts and this all gets priced in and will eventually through some mechanism come out of our pockets anyway as part of police compensation. At best this transfers some costs to private donors.

Plus, now you have the for profit insurers enthusiastically joining the police in lobbying for ways to make it harder to redress harm. Want to see QI expanded and non-federal remedies further hollowed out? Have the insurance industry have a ton of skin in the game.
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I hadn't considered that. Yeah, the unions would group negotiate and eventually make the city responsible for the premiums. I suppose this idea sucks and does little, other than adding a private group that can skim out a profit from the deal.

I meant this largely as a joke. The real solution is prosecution. Criminal charges cut through all the nonsense of HR-union negotiated discipline, blah blah blah. Let them complain to their union steward in jail.

The problem of police is political, and political will is required to change the toxic culture.
 
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Fox News.

Gingrich: "The number 1 problem in almost all these cities is George Soros elected left-wing antipolice pro-criminal DAs"

Francis: "I'm not sure we need to bring Soros into this"

G: "He paid for it, why can't we discuss that"

Harf:"No, he didn't"

G: "OK, so it's verboten?"
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
I hadn't considered that. Yeah, the unions would group negotiate and eventually make the city responsible for the premiums. I suppose this idea sucks and does little, other than adding a private group that can skim out a profit from the deal.

I meant this largely as a joke. The real solution is prosecution. Criminal charges cut through all the nonsense of HR-union negotiated discipline, blah blah blah. Let them complain to their union steward in jail.

The problem of police is political, and political will is required to change the toxic culture.
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Really, a massive part of the problems are police unions and "benevolence" societies that actively work to avoid penalties for unprofessional conduct.

I've noted before that police "unions" are not at all like normal unions - anyone who knows the early days of the union movement, as well as the outlawing of drugs will recognize that police were then, as they are now, inflictors of state violence against whoever the wealthy dislike. So, yes, a part of this involved campaign finance and the like. But make no mistake that this is a long-running and fundamental issue with US policing, and the US in general, as often seen in, for example, the use of barriers to prevent homeless people from sleeping...well, anywhere, because "they're dirty and drive down the value of empty apartments and condos".

Basically, rather than protectors, US police often act as violent street goons, particularly in poor, and especially in black and indigenous, areas. That must end. Break up their unions and "benevolence" societies, refuse to negotiate. Stop pushing minority police as a solution - they aren't, this is like relying on Candace Owens for "African-American outreach", the black person who volunteers is often even worse than white ones. Drastically reduce what police are responsible for, move towards social work instead - reserve police, particularly well-armed police, for potentially violent situations, actual violence, and crime investigation. SWAT teams should be reserved for extreme situations, rather than for routine warrants (many of which should not be illegal in the first place). Military surplus should be state-level, only, and use against nonviolent protestors should result in confiscation (rather than failure to use such equipment, which only serves to incentivize it's misuse). Yes, lightly-armed police will be needed for some nonviolent matters, such as DUIs and the like This is a general blueprint, not a full-on detailed analysis.

And stop drumming it into cops' heads that every situation is life-or-death. They aren't.

People who are, somehow, shocked by the small group of people cheering the shooting of two cops in Compton seem to have forgotten the *decades* of loud and clear complaints against this exact police force, which predates NWA and runs straight through today. When you're bad enough to spawn numerous internationally popular songs about what horrible people your local city group is, you may want to consider that you might just be the baddies. None of this is new.
 
The blue wall of silence is built on a foundation of white supremacy grouted with the police union. They consider the general public the enemy, especially people of color.
 
Captain_Swoop said:
Fox News.

Gingrich: "The number 1 problem in almost all these cities is George Soros elected left-wing antipolice pro-criminal DAs"

Francis: "I'm not sure we need to bring Soros into this"

G: "He paid for it, why can't we discuss that"

Harf:"No, he didn't"

G: "OK, so it's verboten?"
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I have yet to meet a person who has received a Soros paycheck for protesting police brutality - particularly as some sort of prearranged agreement.

However!

If Soros is somehow helping finance these, then good for him, he's a vastly better humanitarian than Newt Gingrich - and also a better historian, simply by refusing to write about history, just as an aside.
 
Mumbles said:
I have yet to meet a person who has received a Soros paycheck for protesting police brutality - particularly as some sort of prearranged agreement.

However!

If Soros is somehow helping finance these, then good for him, he's a vastly better humanitarian than Newt Gingrich - and also a better historian, simply by refusing to write about history, just as an aside.
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(((George Soros)))

God they want to say it so bad. Champing at the bit to go mask off.
 
The Newt started this "making the others lose is more important than winning" strategy and finds himself at the predictable endpoint: blaming the Jooos.
 
portlandatheist said:
-Somebody who is not Andy Ngo curates a list of Antifa bad people and according to this blogger, does a pretty crappy job of going about doing that
-Andy Ngo publishes this crappy list on a website to the public, the public includes Atomwaffen. Also: Atomwaffen may, or may not exist.
-Conclusion: Andy Ngô is a threat to our communities and provides kill lists to Atomwaffen
Cool story bro!
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Looks like Andy Ngo has a new trick. He posts mugshots and personal info for every protester arrested in the Portland area.

Twelve nights later, on Aug. 19, a man showed up on the doorstep of Gray's mother's eastside home. "He was sweaty and nervous looking, and he asked for Ragina by name," says Lucinda Fisher, Gray's mom. "He mentioned [Gray's] son, and I noticed he had a gun in his hand." Fisher slammed the door and called the police.
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The Wenzels alerted their employers. On Aug. 18, three days after Ngo posted the mug shot, Phillip Wenzel's boss at Elizabeth Christy Law Firm sent him a letter that the firm had received 50 threatening or harassing communications since his arrest.
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Andy Ngo, terrorist whisperer.

https://www.wweek.com/news/2020/09/16/portland-protesters-say-their-lives-were-upended-by-the-posting-of-their-mug-shots-on-a-conservative-twitter-account/
 
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thaiboxerken said:
Remember when Trumpanzees complained about "doxxing"?
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Antifa doxxing is bad, because neo-confederates and neo-nazis sometimes lose their jobs.

Doxxing so that the same nazis can show up with a gun to murder a 9 year old boy because the mother got a disorderly conduct charge at a protest, that's a-ok.
 
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