Smartphone upgrade treadmill

[carlitos]

Apple tends to provide upgrades longer than Android device manufacturers, although they also eventually drop support. For example, Samsung, historically, has provided something like two major OS upgrades for their phones, which nowadays amounts to less than two years of support.

Mind you, the hardware may not be able to support the new stuff well, even if the OS upgrade is provided.

The latest apple OS works on my wife's iPhone 7 as well as my iPod touch. So - 4-5 years or so.

 

[quadraginta]

Yeah, just checked, S4 has LineageOS 17.1 available (which is Android 10): https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/jfltexx/

But again, that's technical work - and will erase what you currently have on the phone.

That shouldn't be a problem if you've done back-ups. Everything on the phone can be backed up, and restored after the new ROM is installed.

If someone is technically adept enough to install the new ROM then back-up and restore shouldn't be much of a hurdle.

And it really isn't that hard. I've managed to do it with several different smartphones, a couple very long-in-the-tooth Samsung tablets, and an old Nook. I'm no WunderGeek. If I can pull it off it ain't that tough.

As a follow-up. I've seen some red flags popping up about 17.1 for the jfltexx. Not quite stable, yet. Maybe better to go with 16.0 (Android 9) which seems to be thoroughly tested.

 

[theprestige]

If I'm reading correctly, because you want to run some app from "Github."

: blush :

And you're mad that a volunteer, donating his own time and effort, chose to focus that time and effort on the majority of users and the more current operating systems.

 

[Babbylonian]

And you're mad that a volunteer, donating his own time and effort, chose to focus that time and effort on the majority of users and the more current operating systems.

Not just "more current" but the last 5 major OS revisions.

I suspect the main reason apps tend to support Android 6 and above (this is commonly seen in the Google Play Store) is that 6 introduced the new permissions model which looks for permission when an application attempts to access something on the phone - e.g., when the app tries to access the camera and it doesn't already have permission, the system asks the user if it wants to give the app that permission. It's a pretty big improvement over assigning permissions when the software is installed and it's an important security feature that allows you to know when an app is trying to access something you don't want it to (location services being the big one in my eyes).

It's possible that, thanks to Google breaking out pieces of the OS into components that can be updated separately, compatibility issues like this will never again come down to the OS version but instead to only the specific phone being used.

 

[Blue Mountain]

I do think it's kind of funny that Blue Mountain has had the same phone for seven years and still complains about being on the "upgrade treadmill" now that it's finally starting to become legitimately obsolete.

Like, dude, seven years with the same phone? You're living the dream. That's not the treadmill at all. That's a leisurely stroll through the park, stopping to smell all the flowers and watch all the birds. Enjoy your success!

If I'm reading correctly, because you want to run some app from "Github."

And I'm still not very clear on what he's complaining about since, according to him, it still does everything he wants.

Of course, if he wants to play Fortnite at 1440p and 120Hz he'll probably need an upgrade.

I do think it's kind of funny that Blue Mountain has had the same phone for seven years and still complains about being on the "upgrade treadmill" now that it's finally starting to become legitimately obsolete.

Like, dude, seven years with the same phone? You're living the dream. That's not the treadmill at all. That's a leisurely stroll through the park, stopping to smell all the flowers and watch all the birds. Enjoy your success!

I admit my complaint is difficult to parse because I'm split on the issue myself.

First, my smartphone at seven years old is becoming obsolete, yet I'm getting razzed for complaining about it. I want to ask you people, what other $600-plus things do you have in your home that are considered obsolete and in need of a replacement after only seven years? (I chose $600 because that's about the price of a new phone, and I realize I can get a used one for much less money. ) Your fancy amplifier? Your dining room suite? TV set? Refrigerator? Dishwasher? Laundry washer and dryer? Bed and mattress? The fancy BBQ on your deck?

I suspect none of these, with the possible exception of the TV set. Yet for some reason we're expected to shell out one to two hundred bucks or so a year to keep our smartphones current and find a new home for the old ones. I hate simply discarding functional devices; the phones I've retired over the years have gone to programs that re-purpose them for vulnerable people, like women's shelters.

I'm on a limited income with some medical expenses and would prefer not to spend the money, nor go to the hassle of having to port everything over every three years. I have to do the port manually because I'm NOT going to back up my Android device to Google. I simply do. not. trust. them with my data.

Yes, my current phone does (almost) everything I want it to do. Except this app, this time (the COVID tracking app.) Tomorrow, who knows what else won't work? Once the phone turns ten years old I probably will be forced to upgrade it because likely every newly released app won't run on it.

Yes, upgrading to Lineage OS is an option—most of the time. By design, it's not easy to upgrade the OS on the phone. Unlike, say, a ten year old computer where upgrades are routine. In addition, just because because the phone says "Galaxy S4" at startup, it isn't guaranteed Lineage OS will run on it. Samsung releases several different variants of each generation for different markets. The one I have here in Canada is different from the ones in the US. My phone says it's an SGH-I337M, while Lineage says its download is for SGH-I337 devices. Is that 'M' important or not? I'll have to do some digging to find out.

Another problem: neither Samsung nor my carrier will upgrade the OS for me, despite the fact that, officially, the phone is locked down and they're the ones responsible for keeping the OS up to date. Yet they've abrogated that responsibility and left it to the device owners. But if the owners brick their devices trying to install Lineage OS they won't offer assistance! That's such a sweet deal for Samsung and the carriers.

Now here's the schizophrenic part: new functionality is great, and it's wonderful to see the incredible improvement in what smart phones can do over what they did when they were first introduced. The improvements to Android itself are good, too, especially with updated security features. And I recognise these do come at a price: not all the older hardware will run the latest OS.

More schizophrenia: Code written for the IBM 360 over fifty years ago will still run on the IBM z mainframes (after a recompile), and object code compiled on the original IBM AS/400 from the 1980s will run unmodified on latest IBM i operating system. That's because IBM designed them that way, and the users paid for it, handsomely. I haven't shelled out the really big bucks on my smartphones, so I shouldn't expect that level of commitment. Yet I'm complaining about the fact I don't ...

If you don't understand my position any better after this post, it's probably because I'm just as confused as you are as to what it is.

 

[Blue Mountain]

Not just "more current" but the last 5 major OS revisions.

I suspect the main reason apps tend to support Android 6 and above (this is commonly seen in the Google Play Store) is that 6 introduced the new permissions model which looks for permission when an application attempts to access something on the phone - e.g., when the app tries to access the camera and it doesn't already have permission, the system asks the user if it wants to give the app that permission. It's a pretty big improvement over assigning permissions when the software is installed and it's an important security feature that allows you to know when an app is trying to access something you don't want it to (location services being the big one in my eyes).

It's possible that, thanks to Google breaking out pieces of the OS into components that can be updated separately, compatibility issues like this will never again come down to the OS version but instead to only the specific phone being used.

Here's me being schizophrenic again. My version of Android is five releases behind the current. That's like running Fedora 27 on a computer when the latest is 32. I shouldn't complain about the latest Linux software not being compatible with Fedora 27. Yet I am complaining I can't run the latest Android apps on a five-releases-behind OS.

The primary difference is I can reasonably expect to upgrade a seven year old computer to Fedora 32, regardless of who manufactured it. That's not guaranteed for every Android device out there. Android tends to be locked down a lot harder than Linux and the hardware is much more proprietary, making upgrades somewhere between inconvenient and impossible.

So after all the words I've posted, that's the crux of my complaint: a seven year old desktop computer can be easily upgraded to the most current version of the operating system, and the user has continued use of it. Not so much for a seven year old Android device: it's hit and miss, and the hardware vendor isn't obligated to upgrade the OS for you, even though they were the ones who locked down the device in the first place.

 

[Pixel42]

My smartphone and (wifi only) tablet are both over six years old, and still do everything I require (which in the case of the smartphone is mostly receive one time codes so I can do my banking online, I only use it for anything else maybe a couple of times a year).

As someone who used to manage a software development team I know what a pain it is to keep supporting old hardware and software, every time we had to drop support of a previous release when we produced an upgrade our customers would scream. So when, for example, Norton informed me that my tablet was about to stop being supported I understood, though I was still annoyed.

It is annoying when functioning hardware has to be replaced, I'm of the generation/background for whom waste is sinful. If my phone or tablet are still working when I'm finally forced to buy new ones it will rankle. But I can't honestly see a viable alternative.

 

[malbui]

My corporate iPhone is being replaced - I was copied in on the order process rather than initiating it. I’m still quite happy with the current one but it can’t be upgraded to a version of iOS that supports our two most business-critical in-house developed apps, so I’m being obliged to upgrade.

 

[HansMustermann]

Ok, just to clarify it a bit, as someone who's done some programming for those things.

The issue aren't the manufacturers. They're not the ones who say that a new application has to require Android 6 or whatnot.

That kind of thing is determined by whoever wrote the application. If they used stuff that only Android 6 provides, that's what determines how far back is it still compatible. And it's also a matter of exactly on how old devices do you want to test it and support it.

 

[carlitos]

I don’t trust google either, but I do use the Apple cloud. Getting a new phone is pretty simple - you pretty much just sign on and pick some preferences and that’s it.

Is there a non-google cloud that can provide similar functionality for an Android device?

 

[Wudang]

More schizophrenia: Code written for the IBM 360 over fifty years ago will still run on the IBM z mainframes (after a recompile), and object code compiled on the original IBM AS/400 from the 1980s will run unmodified on latest IBM i operating system. That's because IBM designed them that way, and the users paid for it, handsomely. I haven't shelled out the really big bucks on my smartphones, so I shouldn't expect that level of commitment. Yet I'm complaining about the fact I don't ...

What i still call MVS could have object code compatibility because it did not have to make a profit. It's mission was to be stable. And that takes a lot of work that other OSes can't afford. If you look at half the control blocks hanging off the CVT see how many have extensions and addresses commented "* reserved for future use". That being said old code will still run but that does not mean you can the latest version of CICS and run it on a s/360.

 

[grmcdorman]

I don’t trust google either, but I do use the Apple cloud. Getting a new phone is pretty simple - you pretty much just sign on and pick some preferences and that’s it.

Is there a non-google cloud that can provide similar functionality for an Android device?

One provided by other firms, or one you own? For the latter, at least Synology, and I suspect Q-Nap will also since they're direct competitors. I use Synology, DS Cloud provides automatic synching. DS Drive is supposed to be replacing DS Cloud, but it does not do automatic synching, and according to at least one review is buggy.

There are also OpenSource applications, the most prominent of which is ownCloud; the Android app is available from F-Droid. F-Droid lists several other OSS aps. All generally require you to run your own server, although there are pre-configured packages for Synology (and, I suspect, Q-Nap).

For firms, I do not know personally, but common services like Dropbox and the like are available. I believe Microsoft's OneDrive is also available.

 

[quadraginta]

One provided by other firms, or one you own? For the latter, at least Synology, and I suspect Q-Nap will also since they're direct competitors. I use Synology, DS Cloud provides automatic synching. DS Drive is supposed to be replacing DS Cloud, but it does not do automatic synching, and according to at least one review is buggy.

There are also OpenSource applications, the most prominent of which is ownCloud; the Android app is available from F-Droid. F-Droid lists several other OSS aps. All generally require you to run your own server, although there are pre-configured packages for Synology (and, I suspect, Q-Nap).

For firms, I do not know personally, but common services like Dropbox and the like are available. I believe Microsoft's OneDrive is also available.

Why even bother with cloud storage if it seems so dangerous? There are plenty of quick and easy ways to back-up and restore Android devices using local storage.

Every time I've installed a custom ROM I've done the b & r to either a micro sd on the phone itself or to a drive on my laptop.

 

[grmcdorman]

Cloud storage gives you the second level of backups required for best practices: at least one (or two) local, one offsite. A house fire when you are at home, for example, may result in you escaping without your device(s) - and you've then lost all of your copies in the fire.

In addition, automatic backups are very useful. I usually do a full (image) SD card backup of my Android devices roughly weekly, and for sure before any OS upgrade. I'm not saving those backups elsewhere, though; I probably should be.

Our local important files - e.g. tax files - are on a Synology server that backs up to an attached USB drive, and then to IDrive (backups there are protected by a user-provided encryption key). 2TB of backup space for ~$50 CAD annually. IDrive can also back up SMS and contacts from Android (and perhaps iOS?).

Of course, if you're self-hosting it's not offsite.

A local copy is quick, inexpensive recovery; an offsite is part of what the industry calls "disaster recovery".

 

[quadraginta]

Cloud storage gives you the second level of backups required for best practices: at least one (or two) local, one offsite. A house fire when you are at home, for example, may result in you escaping without your device(s) - and you've then lost all of your copies in the fire.

In addition, automatic backups are very useful. I usually do a full (image) SD card backup of my Android devices roughly weekly, and for sure before any OS upgrade. I'm not saving those backups elsewhere, though; I probably should be.

Our local important files - e.g. tax files - are on a Synology server that backs up to an attached USB drive, and then to IDrive (backups there are protected by a user-provided encryption key). 2TB of backup space for ~$50 CAD annually. IDrive can also back up SMS and contacts from Android (and perhaps iOS?).

Of course, if you're self-hosting it's not offsite.

A local copy is quick, inexpensive recovery; an offsite is part of what the industry calls "disaster recovery".

Sure, but they aren't afraid of using cloud storage.

 

[carlitos]

The stuff you guys are talking about sounds really complicated. Seriously, the Apple cloud is $2.99 / month - no “NAS,” no SD card, no server needed.

I wonder how many Apple phone users even know what version of their operating system is running. It Just updates overnight once in a while and the only reason Some people notice is that You have to enter the passcode in the morning.

 

[carlitos]

I admit my complaint is difficult to parse because I'm split on the issue myself.



First, my smartphone at seven years old is becoming obsolete, yet I'm getting razzed for complaining about it. I want to ask you people, what other $600-plus things do you have in your home that are considered obsolete and in need of a replacement after only seven years? (I chose $600 because that's about the price of a new phone, and I realize I can get a used one for much less money. ) Your fancy amplifier? Your dining room suite? TV set? Refrigerator? Dishwasher? Laundry washer and dryer? Bed and mattress? The fancy BBQ on your deck?



I suspect none of these, with the possible exception of the TV set. Yet for some reason we're expected to shell out one to two hundred bucks or so a year to keep our smartphones current and find a new home for the old ones. I hate simply discarding functional devices; the phones I've retired over the years have gone to programs that re-purpose them for vulnerable people, like women's shelters.

You make a really good point. Water heater was the only thing that came to mind for me. At least your phone doesn’t flood the utility room when it goes bad.

I worry about all of the driver-facing technology built into new cars. Some of these operating systems seem like they will go obsolete long before the mechanical parts of the car will.

 

[HansMustermann]

Why would that be a problem? Upgrading the cell phone is only really needed if you want to use some new app that doesn't work on the old one. If you're just using the existing apps, you can keep the same phone pretty much for ever. Seems to me like the latter would be the case with the car's software.

 

[carlitos]

Why would that be a problem? Upgrading the cell phone is only really needed if you want to use some new app that doesn't work on the old one. If you're just using the existing apps, you can keep the same phone pretty much for ever. Seems to me like the latter would be the case with the car's software.

As long as the manufacturer or someone can service them, then you are right. As a Saab driver, my worry is more personal. Someday the thing might freeze up due to a computer malfunction while the mechanics are still fine.

 

[HansMustermann]

It might, but it's more likely it'll be because the hardware gives out eventually, rather than software becoming obsolete.