Riots, looting, vandalism, etc.

I'm wondering if there is body cam footage of the arrest attempt. For some reason, I'm thinking that the cameras malfunctioned or that the footage was misplaced....
In my somewhat limited experience, once the feds are involved, they clamp down on releasing any more information. Barr did his victory lap. Very lucky no one else was struck.

ETA: I never find body-cam footage to be as clear as some people say it is, anyway. Too many problems with shaky cameras, limited point of view and general confusion. But sometimes it does clarify things.
 
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of course, you are excluding the part of my quote where Homicide Detective Rico Beniga made precisely that conclusion not to mention the eye witness accounts

You referenced an out-of-context quote from the affidavit that did not, in fact, conclude what you are claiming it did.

This information was already provided in the post to which you originally responded.
 
In my somewhat limited experience, once the feds are involved, they clamp down on releasing any more information. Barr did his victory lap. Very lucky no one else was struck.

ETA: I never find body-cam footage to be as clear as some people say it is, anyway. Too many problems with shaky cameras, limited point of view and general confusion. But sometimes it does clarify things.

xxxx

No body camera or dashboard camera footage was recorded of the shooting, according to Thurston County sheriff’s Lt. Ray Brady.

https://www.thenewstribune.com/news/local/crime/article245503570.html

The problem isn't so much that the footage would clear everything up. Rather it is that if they didn't bother to try to record the arrest it paints a very dark picture of their intentions and credibility.

They are trying to arrest a guy they know is armed. They also know that this guy (for good reason) is of the belief that these white supremacist groups want to do him severe bodily harm. He way want to go out in a blaze of glory. Also this is a notorious case tangentially connected to protests about law enforcement abuses and allegations they are connected to white supremacist groups.

So there is this task force arrest with no video whatsoever. Makes sense.
 
https://www.thenewstribune.com/news/local/crime/article245503570.html

The problem isn't so much that the footage would clear everything up. Rather it is that if they didn't bother to try to record the arrest it paints a very dark picture of their intentions and credibility.

They are trying to arrest a guy they know is armed. They also know that this guy (for good reason) is of the belief that these white supremacist groups want to do him severe bodily harm. He way want to go out in a blaze of glory. Also this is a notorious case tangentially connected to protests about law enforcement abuses and allegations they are connected to white supremacist groups.

So there is this task force arrest with no video whatsoever. Makes sense.

From your link:
The involved officers and deputies were part of a federally led task force that tracks down violent offenders. None of those agencies use body cameras or dashboard cameras.
If that is accurate, then the lack of a recording may tell us something about those agencies, but not about this particular shooting.
 
The rally’s organizers wrote on Facebook that the caravan would not enter Multnomah County, where Portland is located, to keep its participants safe. At a similar rally last weekend, drivers deviated from the route and entered downtown Portland, where a rally participant, Danielson, was shot and killed.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/09/07/rochester-protests-daniel-prude/?hpid=hp_no-name_hp-in-the-news%3Apage%2Fin-the-news

If this is to be believed, seems that armed community defense is effective. A fascist got shot dead and now they are afraid to come into the city. Proud Boys and other fascists know that entering Portland means a fight.

Unfortunately the people of Salem got a hard lesson on the limits of nonviolent protest. Being unarmed and peaceful is just an invitation to get bashed by these fascist street brawlers.
 
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From your link:

If that is accurate, then the lack of a recording may tell us something about those agencies, but not about this particular shooting.

I guess a good thing that this is general rather than specific willful ignorance. It makes it look less like a hit but still doesn't speak well as to their credibility.

I like how now they are scouring the earth for video since they are the ones that look suspicious with all this. As if they need video at this point for any other reason than to help them get their story straight.
 
I have the feeling they were sent to take the guy out, not to arrest him.

Indeed.

No doubt the Jacob Blake shooter is getting all kinds of grief for not actually killing him.

It is so much easier and cheaper for the police when they have to deal with lawsuits over wrongful death than permanent injury.
 
Indeed.

No doubt the Jacob Blake shooter is getting all kinds of grief for not actually killing him.

It is so much easier and cheaper for the police when they have to deal with lawsuits over wrongful death than permanent injury.

Not for lack of trying, though. I'm sure he thought 7 shots were enough to kill Blake.
 
Indeed.

No doubt the Jacob Blake shooter is getting all kinds of grief for not actually killing him.

It is so much easier and cheaper for the police when they have to deal with lawsuits over wrongful death than permanent injury.

Keep shooting until the target stops moving is the usual way.
That's why they empty their whole clip.
 
It's not a dilemma at all... for reporters. If they get involved, then they aren't reporters.
This is not as cut-and-dried as you think.

A news photographer I knew was on the scene when he spotted a child being swept away in a flash flood. Rescue workers had been looking for the kid but hadn't spotted him. The photog made sure to alert police and the child was saved. I don't doubt he would have leapt in himself, forgetting the camera entirely, if he thought he could save the kid's life.

On the other hand, MLK Jr. reportedly berated a photographer for jumping in to aid a child being beaten. King said it was more important to document the abuse while others tended to the kid.

A photog in Africa was criticized for getting a shot of a vulture waiting near a dying child instead of helping the child - which he reportedly did after getting the shot.

Circumstances matter. We don't turn in our consciences in exchange for a license to do journalism.
 
Gender reveal parties have destroyed tens of thousands more square miles of property then BLM and Antifa combined.
 
xxxx



https://www.thenewstribune.com/news/local/crime/article245503570.html

The problem isn't so much that the footage would clear everything up. Rather it is that if they didn't bother to try to record the arrest it paints a very dark picture of their intentions and credibility.

They are trying to arrest a guy they know is armed. They also know that this guy (for good reason) is of the belief that these white supremacist groups want to do him severe bodily harm. He way want to go out in a blaze of glory. Also this is a notorious case tangentially connected to protests about law enforcement abuses and allegations they are connected to white supremacist groups.

So there is this task force arrest with no video whatsoever. Makes sense.
There may very well be video, collected at the scene. It's difficult getting routine information out of the feds. I could always find a inmate in county or state lockup in a matter of seconds. I tried to do that with a DOJ case and they wanted a credit card number. I feel a little guilty for not following through. I doubt if it's gotten any better. But someone will FOIA these records and it will come out. If it were an execution, they should have used better tactics than firing up to 50 rounds on a residential street. If it comes out that he was shooting at officers, fine, take him out. But if the feds could have said anything stronger than he "produced" a weapon, they probably would have. Did he aim it? Did he fire it?

That stuff will come out but it might take a little time.

Reinoehl said he was defending a friend's life. But he might have been lying or overestimating the threat. I couldn't tell much from the video of him coming out of the garage. Maybe he'd picked out the guy earlier for an ambush. But the victim apparently had just fired bear spray, had a baton in his other hand and a pistol in his waistband.
 
If this is to be believed, seems that armed community defense is effective. A fascist got shot dead and now they are afraid to come into the city. Proud Boys and other fascists know that entering Portland means a fight.

Unfortunately the people of Salem got a hard lesson on the limits of nonviolent protest. Being unarmed and peaceful is just an invitation to get bashed by these fascist street brawlers.
I know you disagree, but IMO you shouldn't go around shooting people who are not currently attacking you with potentially lethal force. I'm glad the leftists didn't open fire. Though some bear spray in the face might have been appropriate.
 
I know you disagree, but IMO you shouldn't go around shooting people who are not currently attacking you with potentially lethal force. I'm glad the leftists didn't open fire. Though some bear spray in the face might have been appropriate.

One guy got beat in the head with a metal bat. That's potentially lethal force. If he wasn't wearing a helmet, he may well have died. No arrest for this assault, or for the woman that maced the downed man after.
 
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https://twitter.com/DailyCaller/status/1284988892471599104



I'm a loyal Democrat but I don't understand why some people on the left seem to think that this sort of thing is acceptable. Nor why local politicians like mayors would allow their cities to be destroyed like this.

This is obviously not a "peaceful protest". :mad:

It's not "political speech" it's a crime.

OT: I used to think I was a solid and loyal Democrat in alignment with the party but I don’t know anymore. Biden is the nominee and he’s not a left-wing maniac, which I guess reflects the moderate character of our party’s voters; but the platform is in some ways too left for me.

More generally, there are a lot of avenues for Woke ******* to assert itself that are being exploited in the party I don’t agree with, like with the so-called Equality Act and its handling of GI. (Don’t get me wrong, I’ll never vote for the Republicans as I disagree with them fundamentally on core issues, and, you know, their full-on embracing of crazy and partial embrace of fascism is off putting.)

It just feels like I’m out of step now. To be more precise it feels like the distribution of values is shifting away from moderate liberalism towards this strange amalgam of radical academic leftism and a grotesque Marxism that is ethnocentric instead of class centered. It’s alienating.

As for why are they (some not all Democrats) allowing this madness? I have no idea. Maybe they agree with the rioters, or maybe they’re scared acting against them will escalate things and that this will fizzle out with inaction (which is a gross abdication of responsibility imo)? Who knows. I’d like to see some kind of sensible approach to restoring order in places where chaos reigns, but I don’t think that’s going to happen so I won’t hold my breathe.
 
One guy got beat in the head with a metal bat. That's potentially lethal force. If he wasn't wearing a helmet, he may well have died. No arrest for this assault, or for the woman that maced the downed man after.
I'm not 100 percent on your side as you seem to advocate proactive self-defense. On video I saw it seems plausible that Reinoehl was targeting Danielson to get even for something earlier, not defending himself/his friend. But witnesses say that Danielson had just used bear spray? And that baton, and that pistol. He wasn't looking for a card game. I can imagine a scenario in which Reinoehl could beat that charge.

I can also picture him standing on the sidewalk by his car with his hands in the air while holding a pistol, prepared to drop it. See, here's my gun, here's my hands, I'll go peacefully. Of course I can't say it happened that way. Maybe he leveled it at marshals and they went all Bonnie & Clyde on him.

In another thread I saw many pictures of heavily armed black militia members and my visceral reaction was unexpected. I thought ... well, good. Don't let white shows of force go unanswered; come prepared. And well-trained. And well-disciplined. But at the same time - that's insane. I disagree with your general position as I understand it; I wish everyone would just stay home. No fires, riots, looting, shootings, baseball bats, pepper spray, teargas, bear spray; no flex batons, paintballs or semi-auto rifles and no handguns please. No shoving, tripping, less-lethal projectiles or teargas. No going after a guy that maybe went after your guy earlier. No Tube-style sucker punches, no bags of soup, no back-and-forth taunts.

I have never been violent. I've heard it can be cathartic. That scares me. I think it probably helps Trump. But seeing heavily armed black men doesn't bother me any more than seeing heavily armed white men. I begin to see your point of view.
 
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My sort-of left wing opinionated older brother could easily have been Michael Reinoehl. He's a little old at 64. But so was Reinoehl at what, 48? My 28-year-old Trump-loving, gun-collecting, wanna-be cop nephew could easily have been sucked into some right-wing opposition group. And the thing is, I love them both, and they love each other, and we can all go to a ballgame and have a good time.

I don't picture either on a looting rampage crashing through plate-glass windows. Those guys, I don't know what you do about them. Get them off the streets. Implore everyone to dial the hostilities back a notch. I don't approve of trashing businesses and setting fires. A sort of "Fog of War" is kicking in. Please can we hit "pause" and get our **** together?
 
OT: I used to think I was a solid and loyal Democrat in alignment with the party but I don’t know anymore. Biden is the nominee and he’s not a left-wing maniac, which I guess reflects the moderate character of our party’s voters; but the platform is in some ways too left for me.
I think there's room for meaningful change. I think maybe Biden will have a handful of "RINO" senators from bluish state and functional coalitions with progressives. I feel - a little bit of hope which is uncharacteristic for me.

It just feels like I’m out of step now. To be more precise it feels like the distribution of values is shifting away from moderate liberalism towards this strange amalgam of radical academic leftism and a grotesque Marxism that is ethnocentric instead of class centered. It’s alienating.
It's too late to worry about it. And I don't think we need to worry about it yet, anyway.

As for why are they (some not all Democrats) allowing this madness? I have no idea. Maybe they agree with the rioters, or maybe they’re scared acting against them will escalate things and that this will fizzle out with inaction (which is a gross abdication of responsibility imo)? Who knows. I’d like to see some kind of sensible approach to restoring order in places where chaos reigns, but I don’t think that’s going to happen so I won’t hold my breathe.
I'm hoping a sense of reality kicks in and some party discipline that eases tensions a bit. Trump will keep fanning the flames, but I wonder if warriors on both sides are growing weary and looking for an exit strategy.

I am not an expert and I'm often wrong :o :blush: :(
 

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